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New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia Burlington County, Camden County, Gloucester County, Salem County in South Jersey
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:08 PM
 
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It was mentioned in another thread on here, but one thing many people overlook is that there isn't nearly the volume of commuters into Philly from SNJ as people think there are. This is a stark contrast to what you see in NNJ with people heading into NYC. Basically, SNJ and the entire Philly area to an extent have a very spread out and diversified economic base. The vast majority of SNJ workers work in SNJ at various office parks. Many commuters don't end up in Philly, but end up in one of the Philly burbs. The region has been noted recently as being "odd" in that the urban population of Philly is increasing, but more and more people are "reverse commuting" for work. Meaning, people who live in Philly are commuting to the suburbs for work.

Mass transit works when you need to move a lot of people from A to B. The way the Philly region and SNJ are we are moving A, B, C, D, E to V, W, X, Y, Z. It's just not a really good setup for widespread transit as things sit. One major exception of course is the proposed Glassboro/Gloucester County extension which should have a big impact.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:04 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
It was mentioned in another thread on here, but one thing many people overlook is that there isn't nearly the volume of commuters into Philly from SNJ as people think there are. This is a stark contrast to what you see in NNJ with people heading into NYC. Basically, SNJ and the entire Philly area to an extent have a very spread out and diversified economic base. The vast majority of SNJ workers work in SNJ at various office parks. Many commuters don't end up in Philly, but end up in one of the Philly burbs. The region has been noted recently as being "odd" in that the urban population of Philly is increasing, but more and more people are "reverse commuting" for work. Meaning, people who live in Philly are commuting to the suburbs for work.

Mass transit works when you need to move a lot of people from A to B. The way the Philly region and SNJ are we are moving A, B, C, D, E to V, W, X, Y, Z. It's just not a really good setup for widespread transit as things sit. One major exception of course is the proposed Glassboro/Gloucester County extension which should have a big impact.
Just out of curiosity, what transit projects do you not necessarily agree with? I can't think of many proposals that are necessarily bad for South Jersey. I think if we had better rail transportation infrastructure, than this region wouldn't have this problem of jobs being so decentralized and spread out. It would also help economically for cities like Vineland, NJ which would greatly benefit from having commuter rail or subway access to Philadelphia.
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:43 PM
 
Location: pennsauken
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I hope plans for expanding the A.C. Airport come true. Then they could really ramp up the Atlantic City to 30th station train service.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:11 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
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Originally Posted by Jersey08057 View Post
I hope plans for expanding the A.C. Airport come true. Then they could really ramp up the Atlantic City to 30th station train service.
I do as well. There are a things in South Jersey that need to be completed.
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Old 01-04-2014, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Northville, MI
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I have a transit plan with rapid transit from mount holly to Philadelphia passing through some dense neighborhoods which include Moorestown and maple shade. I think this would be a successful venture for transit in south Jersey given 10-12 years.
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:41 PM
 
Location: pennsauken
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Moorestown has and will shut it down every time. It won't happen.
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Voorhees, NJ
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Originally Posted by NJhighlands87 View Post
Well, on the bright side, I believe Men's Health Magazine rated Collingswood one of the best towns in which to go car-free. Nearby Philadelphia just about forces you to do so in Center City unless you can afford and extra $150 monthly for garage parking.

For me, as someone who enjoys the flexibility afforded by car ownership, one of South Jersey's big attractions is the ample parking and low congestions (compared to North Jersey, at least), so I don't see as big a need for public transit right now. Personally, I think a light rail connecting some of the more populous suburbs in Morris and Essex counties would have had more affect on reducing congestion than the Riverline through a string of moderately populated old river towns. However, the southern PATCO is a great idea and one that I think would really make Glassboro a booming town. It's also off that a lot of places that feel like "train towns" such as Mount Holly and Haddon Heights don't have any train access.
Collingswood was one of the places I was looking to live within the next year. I've been on Craigslist, window shopping apartments. It's definitely affordable (though, it's amazing the difference the rent is 1 mile down the road in Haddonfield!). Plus, there's a sense of community in Collingswood, Westmont and Haddonfield that you don't really see anywhere else around here. I want to be apart of that. I also at places along the Riverline, such as Pennsauken, Palmyra and Riverside. I don't want to go too far north because then you're getting into 1 hour travel time territory to Philly. The line is also not 24 hours, and I'd like to stay out late in Philly, occasionally - so that may not work (or I'd need to take a bus from Camden).

Yeah, as you said, that Gloucester County line gives the areas in it's path an opportunity to prosper and to hopefully become their own "Haddon Ave towns". I'm especially excited to see how it helps Woodbury and Glassboro.
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Just out of curiosity, what transit projects do you not necessarily agree with?
The pie-in-the-sky turn every sqaure inch of South Jersey into "rail towns" with plenty of "TOD" kind of things people often say. The main reason is that transit costs an insane amount of money to develop for the most part and rarely is ever self-sustaining. Essentially, tax payers almost always end up subsidizing transit for the small minority of the population that uses it. Even PATCO is not a self-sustaining entity, being subsidized by the bridge tolls through DRPA. PATCO also only handles around 38,000 riders daily, which is less than 5% of the regions daily commuters.

Quote:
I can't think of many proposals that are necessarily bad for South Jersey.
To be clear, I don't think any are "bad", I just don't see many as being either feasible or economically sound. I personally feel the Gloucester County Line is a positive project, but even that has an extreme cost relative to the amount of people expected to use it. A MUCH better solution would have been doing something to relieve the mess on 42 more directly. The new bus service seems like a decent idea, we'll see how it goes. The other problem I have is that people want a one seat ride. No one wants to have to transfer 2 or 3 times during their commute. Ultimately my major gripe is lack of centralized planning and management of the system that leads to a bunch of one-off projects that cost an obscene amount of money, will never be self-sustaining and really don't fix anything.

Quote:
I think if we had better rail transportation infrastructure, than this region wouldn't have this problem of jobs being so decentralized and spread out.
Maybe, maybe not. Philadelphia is the major employment hub for the entire region. Everything is designed, for the most part, to take people to Philly. Yet, only around 10% of South Jersey's workforce travels to that central location for employment. Philly has been gaining population and shedding jobs. I'm not sure that building more transit is going to correct that.

Quote:
It would also help economically for cities like Vineland, NJ which would greatly benefit from having commuter rail or subway access to Philadelphia.
It really wouldn't. At least not until every square inch of land was built out between Mullica Hill and Vineland. No one will take transit to commute to Vineland.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DS Nightly View Post
Collingswood was one of the places I was looking to live within the next year.
I have several friends in Collingswood area. One lives in Westmont, but still just 4 blocks from the Colls Patco station. He works in the city. Car broke down a few years ago and he took his time getting it fixed. Was so convenient to walk 4 blocks to the train and end up a block from his office...
It took a heat wave to get him to fix it, and when it died again shortly after he just said the heck with it and has been without a car for most of 3 years or so. Cab expenses have gone up, but risk of DUI is now zero.
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:16 PM
 
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Default Blackwood Train line

There is a rail right-of-way through Mt. Ephraim, Bellmawr, Runnemede and Blackwood that terminates at Blenheim. It's a Norfolk Southern single track short line at the moment and primarily serves the Bellmawr Industrial Park. It could be widened and a track for a light rail line put in place. The real estate is there and I'm sure something could be worked out with Norfolk Southern for acquisition or use of the adjacent right of way.
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