Keeping South Jersey on my Radar for Now.... (Collingswood, Haddonfield: best towns, living in)

[WhiskeyLover123]

Originally Posted by Gerania

Mt. Holly isn't bucolic.

Oh, the horses aren't out.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8892...7i13312!8i6656

Compared to Bergen County, anywhere in Burlington County is bucolic by comparison (aside from a few of the river towns, perhaps).

Drive 10 minutes north or east out of Mt Holly and you're in the middle of farmland. The town is less bucolic than Medford, but Mt Holly has a more active downtown. There are plenty of parks, the Rancocas Creek, a couple breweries and a distillery all in town. The town isn't for everyone, but it is a great option and it is seen as a town on the rise.

[Gerania]

If he can afford Haddonfield, why would he move to Mount Holly?

I'm not sure why he wants to move there, either. It's very busy, much like New Hope, PA.

[Leps12]

What I’ve found in Medford and Mount Holly downtowns when I pass through is that they are pretty quiet and subdued. Definitely not a hustle-bustle thriving busy feel that you get more along the PATCO corridor or what OP is used to in Bergen County towns like Ridgewood, Fort Lee, Palisades Park, Englewood, Westwood, etc. The areas have nice bones and potential...it just feels like the potential is not being realized.

There have been plenty of discussions about North Jersey vs. South Jersey, or even PA Philly burbs vs. South Jersey, and how SJ does not have many traditional downtown areas which appeal to more people’s tastes these days. The fact of the matter is that is just not true. There are plenty of walkable downtowns in South Jersey. It’s just that they generally do not have the same vibrancy as North Jersey or PA burbs, with some just feeling outright deserted and depressed. In other words, they DO exist...BUT they are weak and not really destination-worthy.

[WhiskeyLover123]

Originally Posted by Gerania

If he can afford Haddonfield, why would he move to Mount Holly?

I'm not sure why he wants to move there, either. It's very busy, much like New Hope, PA.

Maybe wants to live beneath his means or wants to live in a town that has more diversity. Or perhaps the more northerly location compared to Haddonfield suits him.

I would not say Mt Holly is like New Hope if that's what you're saying - Haddonfield would be much closer to that vibe, though I may have misunderstood you.

[WhiskeyLover123]

Originally Posted by Leps12

What I’ve found in Medford and Mount Holly downtowns when I pass through is that they are pretty quiet and subdued. Definitely not a hustle-bustle thriving busy feel that you get more along the PATCO corridor or what OP is used to in Bergen County towns like Ridgewood, Fort Lee, Palisades Park, Englewood, Westwood, etc. The areas have nice bones and potential...it just feels like the potential is not being realized.

There have been plenty of discussions about North Jersey vs. South Jersey, or even PA Philly burbs vs. South Jersey, and how SJ does not have many traditional downtown areas which appeal to more people’s tastes these days. The fact of the matter is that is just not true. There are plenty of walkable downtowns in South Jersey. It’s just that they generally do not have the same vibrancy as North Jersey or PA burbs, with some just feeling outright deserted and depressed. In other words, they DO exist...BUT they are weak and not really destination-worthy.

For the record, OP wanted a more subdued atmosphere from what I read, so those towns would suit him.

One of the major things holding Medford and Mt Holly back, and most other South Jersey towns with traditional downtown areas, is the lack of rail transit. A rail connection to Philadelphia (or to Camden with transfer to Philadelphia) would do many of these towns a lot of good. Mt Holly, Glassboro, Woodbury, Brooklawn, Maple Shade, etc... could all stand to benefit if former rail lines were restored. The North Jersey and SEPA towns you alluded to have those rail connections.

[Leps12]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyLover123

For the record, OP wanted a more subdued atmosphere from what I read, so those towns would suit him.

One of the major things holding Medford and Mt Holly back, and most other South Jersey towns with traditional downtown areas, is the lack of rail transit. A rail connection to Philadelphia (or to Camden with transfer to Philadelphia) would do many of these towns a lot of good. Mt Holly, Glassboro, Woodbury, Brooklawn, Maple Shade, etc... could all stand to benefit if former rail lines were restored. The North Jersey and SEPA towns you alluded to have those rail connections.

Yes, I understand that OP was looking for a more subdued area, but when he also mentioned that he liked the idea of a downtown and saw Medford had one, my point was, yeah there is a downtown, but don’t read too much into it, because you will likely get bored of it pretty quickly. Mount Holly’s is larger, but the few times I have passed through have seemed light on foot traffic.

Just to be clear to other repliers, OP is not considering Haddonfield. That is a different thread. Pretty sure it was Haddonfield that Gerania was making the New Hope comparison to, not Mount Holly.

Not to get this topic derailed (pun intended), but on the topic of train lines, yes, I wish SJ would have more train lines running and think it would help to an extent, but it’s not everything. There are SJ towns along train lines that do not seem thriving to me. Hammonton has that weird Mount Holly feel to it as well. Even though I don’t see a whole of of vacancies, it just seems kind of empty in regards to foot traffic...really no comparison to Haddonfield or Collingswood. Sometimes makes me wonder how those businesses are staying afloat. RiverLine towns like Burlington and Riverside seem underwhelming. Burlington has gotten a little progress, but it is slow and still has a long way to go. Riverside seems stuck. Then you have Palmyra and Florence/Roebling have not done anything either.

On the other hand, there are PA burbs without a train that have managed to still have vibrant downtowns. Most notably West Chester and Phoenixville. Neither does Newtown or Kennett Square. And in North Jersey, actually three of those five towns I mentioned in Bergen County (Fort Lee, Palisades Park, Englewood) do not have trains. Nor do some other towns with healthy downtowns like Caldwell and Verona. So I don’t think a train line makes or breaks a downtown. Likely there are larger issues at hand.

[Gerania]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyLover123

Maybe wants to live beneath his means or wants to live in a town that has more diversity. Or perhaps the more northerly location compared to Haddonfield suits him.

I would not say Mt Holly is like New Hope if that's what you're saying - Haddonfield would be much closer to that vibe, though I may have misunderstood you.

I meant Haddonfield. It's a lovely town, but often packed with visitors.

[NYtoNJtoPA]

Originally Posted by Leps12

What I’ve found in Medford and Mount Holly downtowns when I pass through is that they are pretty quiet and subdued. Definitely not a hustle-bustle thriving busy feel that you get more along the PATCO corridor or what OP is used to in Bergen County towns like Ridgewood, Fort Lee, Palisades Park, Englewood, Westwood, etc. The areas have nice bones and potential...it just feels like the potential is not being realized.

There have been plenty of discussions about North Jersey vs. South Jersey, or even PA Philly burbs vs. South Jersey, and how SJ does not have many traditional downtown areas which appeal to more people’s tastes these days. The fact of the matter is that is just not true. There are plenty of walkable downtowns in South Jersey. It’s just that they generally do not have the same vibrancy as North Jersey or PA burbs, with some just feeling outright deserted and depressed. In other words, they DO exist...BUT they are weak and not really destination-worthy.

Same with Moorestown compared to the Haddonfield area. I know Moorestown has money, but the main street there isn't much to write home about comparatively.

No idea why the OP is avoiding Camden County as a whole. If Haddonfield does not make sense financially there is also Westmont - Haddon Township, situated on Haddon Ave between Haddonfield and Collingswood - and Haddon Heights. Both of these towns are less expensive than Haddonfield but are still quite nice with decent school systems. Beyond that, there isn't much else in Camden County that is really desirable apart from Cherry Hill and Voorhees. Gloucester Twp comes to mind, still in Camden County and some nice main street-like areas like Blackwood along the Black Horse Pike, but some very spread out areas as well. Not sure about the schools. I know the whole township feeds into three different regional high schools that are separate from its K-8 district. Brother in law went to Highland.

Then I would say Woodbury Heights (NOT the city of Woodbury) in Gloucester County. It's suburban, but a stone's through from downtown Woodbury which is a nice main street though it is essentially a small town, and possibly West Deptford as well for a similar type of convenience, again NOT Deptford which is a separate town.

Burlington is the largest county by land area in New Jersey, and very spread out with the highest percentage of preserved open space out of all 21 counties due to the Pine Barrens act. The most densely populated areas are near the river. Avoid Burlington City, Riverside, Beverly and Palmyra. Either they are former Abbott districts or have schools I would never even consider sending my children to. Riverton is a beautiful area, similar to Haddonfield and Moorestown, but it feeds into Palmyra High School. A stone's throw from it you have Delran and Cinnaminson which have decent schools but are essentially spread out, car dependent suburbs just like Cherry Hill and Voorhees, though substantially smaller and somewhat less congested though they are both on Rt 130 which is the busiest strip-mall hell corridor in South Jersey. A tad further north, Bordentown is a nice town, not sure about the schools though. Mt. Holly is lower working class, has seen worse days, but also better days.

[Busch Boy]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyLover123

Compared to Bergen County, anywhere in Burlington County is bucolic by comparison (aside from a few of the river towns, perhaps).

Drive 10 minutes north or east out of Mt Holly and you're in the middle of farmland. The town is less bucolic than Medford, but Mt Holly has a more active downtown. There are plenty of parks, the Rancocas Creek, a couple breweries and a distillery all in town. The town isn't for everyone, but it is a great option and it is seen as a town on the rise.

Actually there are plenty of bucolic areas in Bergen County. They just carry a ridiculous price tag.

Originally Posted by NYtoNJtoPA

Same with Moorestown compared to the Haddonfield area. I know Moorestown has money, but the main street there isn't much to write home about comparatively.

No idea why the OP is avoiding Camden County as a whole. If Haddonfield does not make sense financially there is also Westmont - Haddon Township, situated on Haddon Ave between Haddonfield and Collingswood - and Haddon Heights. Both of these towns are less expensive than Haddonfield but are still quite nice with decent school systems. Beyond that, there isn't much else in Camden County that is really desirable apart from Cherry Hill and Voorhees. Gloucester Twp comes to mind, still in Camden County and some nice main street-like areas like Blackwood along the Black Horse Pike, but some very spread out areas as well. Not sure about the schools. I know the whole township feeds into three different regional high schools that are separate from its K-8 district. Brother in law went to Highland.

Then I would say Woodbury Heights (NOT the city of Woodbury) in Gloucester County. It's suburban, but a stone's through from downtown Woodbury which is a nice main street though it is essentially a small town, and possibly West Deptford as well for a similar type of convenience, again NOT Deptford which is a separate town.

Burlington is the largest county by land area in New Jersey, and very spread out with the highest percentage of preserved open space out of all 21 counties due to the Pine Barrens act. The most densely populated areas are near the river. Avoid Burlington City, Riverside, Beverly and Palmyra. Either they are former Abbott districts or have schools I would never even consider sending my children to. Riverton is a beautiful area, similar to Haddonfield and Moorestown, but it feeds into Palmyra High School. A stone's throw from it you have Delran and Cinnaminson which have decent schools but are essentially spread out, car dependent suburbs just like Cherry Hill and Voorhees, though substantially smaller and somewhat less congested though they are both on Rt 130 which is the busiest strip-mall hell corridor in South Jersey. A tad further north, Bordentown is a nice town, not sure about the schools though. Mt. Holly is lower working class, has seen worse days, but also better days.

We're looking for good schools, so Mount Holly won't really work for us. Also, I wrote off northern Burlington and most of Camden County because of distance from the Hamilton/Egg Harbor Township area. We want to be close because of family. Cherry Hill seems too "busy", so I wouldn't want to live there. I was considering Voorhees, but it seems like comparable houses have higher property taxes when compared to the Burlington County towns.

Heck, even Marlton seems to be "busy" on paper. We plan to check it out in person to get a feel for it first. We want larger lots, more space between neighbors (preferably no sidewalks), but a 20 minute drive from "everything". Medford seems like the perfect fit so far.

Downtowns are nice, but again not a deal breaker and barely a consideration for us. Again, nice if the town has one. If not, oh well.

[harriet1954]

I drive through Medford & Medford Lakes and the very lower sections of Marlton & Marlton Lakes on the way to my daughter's, and they really look so nice. Hartford Road, Taunton Road and especially Hopewell Road are lovely to drive on - a little bumpy - but lovely.