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New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia Burlington County, Camden County, Gloucester County, Salem County in South Jersey
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g555 View Post
I don't think North Jersey's industry is strong like say Research Triangle. It seems like a lot of population density and housing, and naturally stronger or more developed than South Jersey, but also similar commuting and work outside the state and punching below one's weight.

If it was stronger, I don't think Southwest would have pulled out of Newark. It kind of signaled that business travelers in it's large domestic network that are willing to pay high fares weren't using Newark enough, or paying the high fares into Newark.
North Jersey funds Research Triangle Park, all the pharmaceutical companies created/or use the companies their for clinical trials. The economy is very small, as compared to North Jersey.

Also Southwest had a very little presence in Newark to begin with, and had a few flights a day going out of their which were old Airtran routes (before they bought them in 2011). Southwest doesn't have enough airplanes at the moment because their fleet of Max 737's (US carrier with the largest fleet of them) are grounded. Newark has more daily departures than Philadelphia and is also competing with two other major international airports. United uses Newark for it's HUB, and its largest demographic of flyers are business people who prefer to use United over Southwest.

I will say though that the tax environment in NJ is not friendly, and its getting worse, which why some mega corporation are leaving to area's like North Carolina.

Last edited by DannyHobkins; 12-17-2019 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Ontario, NY
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Originally Posted by OpinionExperience View Post
South Jersey in mostly the Pinelands Reserve.
This is why, even if you have private land in this area, it's zoned a minimum 5, 10 even 20 acres of land to build one new house. Usually what happens if someone wants to build a new house in the area, they find an old house, knock down two of the walls, build half the house, knock down the other two and complete the house to get around the no new buildings restrictions. This is considered a remodel, not new construction, even though by the time they are completed, nothing of the old house remains. As you can imagine, it's much more expensive to construct buildings this way. Only those that can afford vacation homes build new there, with few low paying jobs and the closest convenience store 10 to 15 miles away, it's an area that doomed never to get developed.

There also very little industry in Southern New Jersey, especially in the eastern part. The casinos are the biggest employers, in the area, followed by the hospitals and government. The FAA does have a decent sized research park there that employs two to three thousand people with good paying jobs, not something easy to find.

Last edited by TechGromit; 01-14-2020 at 11:55 AM..
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
OK, that point was not clear to me from your post. That is true. As you probably know, when someone builds on wetlands, they must replace/preserve an equal amount or greater of wetlands in another part of the state. I think a lot of South Jersey wetlands are protected because of what was taken and developed in the Meadowlands before programs like the Riverkeeper came along to protect them.

https://www.hackensackriverkeeper.org/

I also wouldn't call Newark/Paterson its own urban area. They are miles apart and two completely different cities.

Lastly, Mr. William Paterson, signer of the Constitution, for whom the city is named, spelled his name with only one "t".

The northern part of the NJTP is elevated and runs over a part of the Meadowlands. It is amazing how much of it survives despite decades of abuse. One evening I was in my car crawling slowly on the NJTP spur over a section of the Meadowlands Manhattan to the east, industrial messes visible nearby, and just in front and above me flew a great blue heron. It was a beautiful sight. They hang on despite our best efforts to destroy their habitat.
So basically, South Jersey is so relatively undeveloped, between the NJTP and GSP, in spite of its proximity to a major city because of a) the Pine Barrens wetland soils and b) North Jersey using those development credits?
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
This is why, even if you have private land in this area, it's zoned a minimum 5, 10 even 20 acres of land to build one new house. Usually what happens if someone wants to build a new house in the area, they find an old house, knock down two of the walls, build half the house, knock down the other two and complete the house to get around the no new buildings restrictions. This is considered a remodel, not new construction, even though by the time they are completed, nothing of the old house remains. As you can imagine, it's much more expensive to construct buildings this way. Only those that can afford vacation homes build new there, with few low paying jobs and the closest convenience store 10 to 15 miles away, it's an area that doomed never to get developed.

There also very little industry in Southern New Jersey, especially in the eastern part. The casinos are the biggest employers, in the area, followed by the hospitals and government. The FAA does have a decent sized research park there that employs two to three thousand people with good paying jobs, not something easy to find.
I've never heard of anyone remodeling that way down in the interior. That really happens?
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:32 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
Yes, I know, Camden/Trenton/Cherry Hill/Vorhees/Moorestown all are developed extenstions of greater Philly.

However, as a frequent NJTP and Northeast driver, I am always amazed at how once one crosses into NJ from DE, until maybe mile 20ish, it is very rural and low density. Even beyond there, you don't get much until around exit 4, and even that is still very very low density. After that, by the time you are at mile 40 it looks pretty exurban again before downright rural at exit 6.

Coming over from PA on I-95, one is struck by how you can see the Philly skyline, it is under 30 miles away, and yet, crossing the Delaware you go from instantly being in the middle of metro Philly to feeling like you are on the peripheal even though you are under 30 miles away.

I just can't get over why beyond a very narrow strip of land immediately adjacent to the Philly border, South and Central Jersey are pretty much exurban if that.

I understand Philly isn't NY, but it's still a top 5 market.
I understand the rail lines headed west not east, but this was the case in Long Island too.
Hence I can see why South and Central Jersey did not develop major urban areas, but why didn't they become Phillys version of Long Island?

My guesses would be:

1) Pre WWII, Long Island and South Jersey were both rural hinterlands. However post WWII the housing boom happened, metro NY having much more water in its radius than Philly swallowed up whatever there was in Long Island.
-Philly had plenty of land west, but furter east the land is basically like East Carolina and not suitable for much development?

or

2) Philly never sprawled like NY/BOS/DC, Philly is basically an expanded Baltimore/Pittsburgh, not rust belt, but definitely not booming like those metro areas.

That's all I can think of.
It just makes no sense that you can be under 30 miles from center city and feel hours away.
When Campbell's had their factory in Camden most of the ingredients came from South Jersey farms. Progresso has their plant in Vineland. There are other food companies in South Jersey, like Cento. The loss of the Campbells plant resulted in some farm sales and subsequent development.
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
So basically, South Jersey is so relatively undeveloped, between the NJTP and GSP, in spite of its proximity to a major city because of a) the Pine Barrens wetland soils and b) North Jersey using those development credits?
I don't know anything about the development credits, but that's surely helped. Nearly all of the wetlands are outside of the Pinelands along the coast. There is some low-lying swampy land along the rivers, but it's a fraction of the amount that's down there.

New Jersey is still the Garden State. There are a lot of farms and orchards down there growing everything from cranberries and blueberries to Christmas trees and nursery stock.

As I said in a previous post, there are a lot of forests, parks, green spaces, and historic preservation sites down there.

If you're really interested, read about it.
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Old 02-08-2020, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Ontario, NY
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Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
I've never heard of anyone remodeling that way down in the interior. That really happens?

Not often, I know for a Fact one house in Green Bank was remodeled in this fashion, it was a broken down abandoned house before the it was remodeled. The lot it's on isn't even a acre in size. This is also in the heart of the Pinelands, this isn't something that happens on the edges where new building restrictions are not as stringent.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:14 PM
Status: "edgy. .." (set 15 hours ago)
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
So it is because of the physical geographic limitiations that SJ didn't become like Long Island; same reason why between Jersey City and Patterson North Jersey is not developed due to wetlands?
Have you ever been to Eastern Long Island? No. Not the Hamptons. No. Not the now trendy Wine Country og the North Fork. Near where the Expressway ends.

In some parts it's the same. Farm stands, some fishermen, duck farms, trailer parks, evangelical churches. You might think you were someplace south.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
Not often, I know for a Fact one house in Green Bank was remodeled in this fashion, it was a broken down abandoned house before the it was remodeled. The lot it's on isn't even a acre in size. This is also in the heart of the Pinelands, this isn't something that happens on the edges where new building restrictions are not as stringent.
I see. There are some very small lots along the river.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
There's a gap in North Jersey west of Jersey City, the 'meadowlands' that is relatively undeveloped due to this.

I would expect South Jersey, unless it really is pourous wetlands, to be like LI for Philly commuters since it is so close.
Yeh Philly is smaller but it's still a top 10 major citythat youd expect to sprawl out 30 miles east.
Into New Jersey, the Philly suburbs do extend about 25 miles east. What gets me is that literally over the river from South Philly, there's about 5 miles of sparsely populated suburbs, and then there's nothing.

I think the lack of infill can just mostly be attributed to Philly not growing as fast/much as a lot of other cities in the early/mid 20th century, when most American suburbs were being developed. I created a thread about that in the Philly forum about a year ago, where I show that in the 10 years between 1920 and 1930, Philly grew substantially slower than New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and even Detroit.

I wouldnt find it hard to believe that in hating New York, hating tall buildings, and hating subways, Philly did exactly the opposite of the other 4 biggest US cities, and actively discouraged growth and progress.
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