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New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia Burlington County, Camden County, Gloucester County, Salem County in South Jersey
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
What areas that close to Philly are still undeveloped?
Juts do a 30 mile radius from center city to South Jersey and compare it to a 30 miles radius from NY, DC, Boston, or All, Charlotte and you will see how undeveloped SJ is relative.
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
What areas that close to Philly are still undeveloped?
Nowhere within 20 miles. But within 30 miles, areas like:

Atco, Chesilhurst, and beyond from Camden County into Atlantic County

Logan, Woolwich, South Harrison, and Clayton from Gloucester County into Salem County

Shamong, Tabernacle, Southampton, Eastampton, Westampton, and beyond from Burlington County interior (along the river, it’s developed the whole way through)
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Old 07-17-2020, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Leps12 View Post
Nowhere within 20 miles. But within 30 miles, areas like:

Atco, Chesilhurst, and beyond from Camden County into Atlantic County

Logan, Woolwich, South Harrison, and Clayton from Gloucester County into Salem County

Shamong, Tabernacle, Southampton, Eastampton, Westampton, and beyond from Burlington County interior (along the river, it’s developed the whole way through)
They’re all pretty far from Philly in my opinion. I wouldn’t move that far out if I was going to commute to Philly. With traffic it would take an hour each way.

But North Jersey and New York and all that has always been much more business oriented and developed than South Jersey. I don’t think Philly was ever close to what New York is. I don’t know that I would call that a decline.
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Old 07-19-2020, 09:47 AM
 
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A lot of South Jersey land is also developed, but have been in decline for years. You'll see storefront vacancies and those closed up businesses with a lack of considerable new growth gives a sense of undeveloped.

For example, if you drive down Route 73 past Voorhees, into Berlin Twp., one will see a lot of largely vacant centers. Or driving south of Haddonfield Berlin Road closer to Lindenwold. I'd say these are areas pretty close to Philly and even the PATCO train, and are not Hammonton distance.

Also, up into Burlington County off Route 130, I remember seeing areas being developed but in decline.
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Old 07-19-2020, 11:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by g555 View Post
A lot of South Jersey land is also developed, but have been in decline for years. You'll see storefront vacancies and those closed up businesses with a lack of considerable new growth gives a sense of undeveloped.

For example, if you drive down Route 73 past Voorhees, into Berlin Twp., one will see a lot of largely vacant centers. Or driving south of Haddonfield Berlin Road closer to Lindenwold. I'd say these are areas pretty close to Philly and even the PATCO train, and are not Hammonton distance.

Also, up into Burlington County off Route 130, I remember seeing areas being developed but in decline.
Very true. In decline and undeveloped are two completely different things. When taking into account decline, areas VERY close to Philly like Camden, Gloucester City, Pennsauken, Brooklawn, etc. are all in decline. The general South Jersey area has been suffering for a while now. Almost everywhere in the southern half of the state from the Delaware River all of the way to the Atlantic Ocean and everywhere in between is worse off now than they were 20 years ago. Small exceptions for towns like Haddonfield, Haddon Township, Collingswood, and the well-off Shore towns like Margate, Avalon, Stone Harbor, Sea Isle City, Cape May, etc. Maybe a few others like Pitman and Glassboro as well that have decided to spruce up and support their downtown areas, although Glassboro is still not great.
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Old 07-19-2020, 02:54 PM
 
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Take a look at South Jersey within a 30 mile radius of Philly; then compare it to a 30 miles radius of Philly on the PA side; then compare that to a 30 mile radius of New York, DC, Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta. You will see how much more relatively undeveloped South Jersey is for a market this size.
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Old 07-19-2020, 03:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
Take a look at South Jersey within a 30 mile radius of Philly; then compare it to a 30 miles radius of Philly on the PA side; then compare that to a 30 mile radius of New York, DC, Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta. You will see how much more relatively undeveloped South Jersey is for a market this size.
In the ring between 20 and 30 miles, yes. But everywhere within 20 miles is fully developed. It is not as dense as North Jersey, but that’s the densest area of the whole country. Being mid-density suburban does not mean you are undeveloped. It’s Just fully developed in a different way.

South Jersey suburbs are comparable to Charlotte and Atlanta suburbs in their density and level of development.
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Old 07-19-2020, 04:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Leps12 View Post
In the ring between 20 and 30 miles, yes. But everywhere within 20 miles is fully developed. It is not as dense as North Jersey, but that’s the densest area of the whole country. Being mid-density suburban does not mean you are undeveloped. It’s Just fully developed in a different way.

South Jersey suburbs are comparable to Charlotte and Atlanta suburbs in their density and level of development.
Only between exit 3 and 4 on the NJTP does it seem dense, south of 3 and north of 4 it's pretty undeveloped for this kind of metro area.
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
Only between exit 3 and 4 on the NJTP does it seem dense, south of 3 and north of 4 it's pretty undeveloped for this kind of metro area.
Exit 5 is developed if you head west towards Willingboro and Burlington. East not so much. See my previous post about Burlington County and its development along the river.

But yes, for this kind of metro area, it’s less dense. Less dense than North Jersey, LI, Westchester, DelCo, most of MontCo, and inner Bucks and Chester (but further out, those counties get pretty rural).

Difference is that cities like Atlanta and Charlotte have, within their proper city limits, areas that are quite suburban. You don’t see that so much in Philly...even NE Philly or Roxborough/Manayunk which are not exactly urban cores, are much more dense than typical suburbs and still would feel more urban than suburban overall. Once you step outside of the NE Corridor, save for a few other spots like Chigaco and San Francisco, you don’t really see that. Suburbs begin within city limits almost everywhere else...Atlanta, Charlotte, Twin Cities, the major Texas cities, Denver, L.A., Kansas City, Nashville, etc.

You could clone Voorhees, 18 miles east of Philly, and drop it on top of Myers Park, which is inside Charlotte city limits and only 4.5 miles from the city center, and you wouldn’t know the difference.

Last edited by Leps12; 07-19-2020 at 08:37 PM..
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Old 07-20-2020, 08:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Leps12 View Post
Exit 5 is developed if you head west towards Willingboro and Burlington. East not so much. See my previous post about Burlington County and its development along the river.

But yes, for this kind of metro area, it’s less dense. Less dense than North Jersey, LI, Westchester, DelCo, most of MontCo, and inner Bucks and Chester (but further out, those counties get pretty rural).

Difference is that cities like Atlanta and Charlotte have, within their proper city limits, areas that are quite suburban. You don’t see that so much in Philly...even NE Philly or Roxborough/Manayunk which are not exactly urban cores, are much more dense than typical suburbs and still would feel more urban than suburban overall. Once you step outside of the NE Corridor, save for a few other spots like Chigaco and San Francisco, you don’t really see that. Suburbs begin within city limits almost everywhere else...Atlanta, Charlotte, Twin Cities, the major Texas cities, Denver, L.A., Kansas City, Nashville, etc.

You could clone Voorhees, 18 miles east of Philly, and drop it on top of Myers Park, which is inside Charlotte city limits and only 4.5 miles from the city center, and you wouldn’t know the difference.
Salem County, Gloucester, Burlington, most of it is within 25 miles of Philly and you'd never know it.
If this was another similar metro area it would be McMansions every square mile.
I can't help but think the relative gap here is due to Philly's stagnation.
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