Where does South Jersey begin? (Toms River, Camden: cities, county, between)

[billb7581]

I would say it is a diagonal line from Bordentown to Seaside Heights LOL

[drive carephilly]

I grew up in Monmouth County so this debate is always funny to me because it's always North Jersey and South Jersey people having the debate. It's like if people from Pittsburgh and Philly argued over whether or not Central PA existed instead of just asking the people who live there. For most people In Monmouth and Ocean, North Jersey starts when you cross the Raritan River. I think it's more about the industry and urban development along the Parkway and Turnpike up that way than any cultural observation. A large majority of people claim that the area is Central Jersey and if asked would probably say that South Jersey starts in some vague area half way between Toms River and Manahawkin. Mercer is also Central Jersey. Most people see Ft. Dix as the dividing line to the south/west. If you're north of it you're in Central Jersey. If you're south or west of it it's South Jersey.

In terms of the culture, I'd say it depends on where your family is from. If they just moved down from Staten Island or Bergen County then they're going to have more of a New York orientation (and if you ever want to get an eye roll from someone from Monmouth Co., be pushy while telling them you just moved down from North Jersey while also suggesting that you're currently in South Jersey.)

Someone who is 3rd generation from Freehold just doesn't identify with NYC in the way that someone who is 3rd generation from Cherry Hill is going to identify with Philly. Manhattan is just too far away. Most people in the area work somewhere locally or maybe commute to Middlesex or Mercer County. NYC commuting isn't as big as people think it is and it drops off precipitously once you hit the one hour commute mark - which is roughly at the Navesink River/520 which is the road that runs from Red Bank (train to NYC) to Marlboro (express bus). If you're north of Red Bank there's a much stronger North Jersey/NYC jobs pull that dissipates rapidly so that by the time you're down to Route 33 (Asbury/Freehold) it's almost nonexistent.

Originally Posted by ocnjgirl

Is your local ABC, NBC, etc affiliate Philly or NY? Do you get Giants games or Eagles games on Fox Sunday? Does this vary among central Jersey towns?

Most places get both channels and some places further north only get 6 ABC from Philly. It depends on what your cable company is.

My dad's side of the family is from Asbury Park - he's 3rd generation Asbury area. My grandparents still lived on Deal Lake in Asbury until I was 11 or 12. Their accents are much more like South Jersey accents than my mom's North Jersey family. As kids we had debates in school all the time - is it pronounced BAY-gul or BEH-gul? Is it water or wooder?

When my grandparents lived in Asbury we lived in Brick. But then they moved to Brick and we moved up to the Long Branch area so my parent's commutes would be easier. The electrification for the trains to Penn Station only runs as far south as Long Branch so if you lived south of there it used to be that your commute was an extra 10 minutes because of the change to diesel in Long Branch. Anyway, In Brick we got both channels. In the Asbury Park Press the TV listings were even printed like that. A show on CBS would say CBS 2/10, NBC 3/4, ABC 6/7. It was kind of cool back then because you could easily watch sports from both cities (My parents eventually retired and moved out to southern Chester County, PA and it was the same with Philly/Baltimore TV). When we moved up to Long Branch and had some weird cable company that's not around anymore (Storer?) we still got Philly ABC but family in Asbury and Belmar still got all 3. From what I hear 6 ABC was the last one carried by the cable companies in most of Monmouth but got dropped over some beef between the NY and Philly affiliates. As far as I know, most of Ocean County still gets TV from both cities. Only at the far southern end is it Philly only.

My dad grew up a Mets fan but he accidentally raised us as Phillies fans because the Vet was so much easier to get to than driving all the way to Queens. Especially from Brick. It was a straight shot on Route 70 down to 295 and there was rarely much traffic back then, especially on the weekends. The Phillies get increasingly popular from Asbury and points south and even more if you go west. There are plenty of people who are Sixers and Flyers fans in Monmouth County but otherwise most sports had a North Jersey orientation because it was all in the Meadowlands or Newark. It was an easy drive or train ride to get up there.

In terms of summer tourism - there's always been a noticeable Philly presence in Asbury Park, especially over the last 20 years, but other than that it's less so people from Philly or South Jersey as it is people from Bucks and MontCo, many of whom are about an hour from Avon, Belmar, and Spring Lake. It would take twice as long for them to get down to Ocean City. Not that a lot of people don't do it anyway.

[g555]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

I grew up in Monmouth County so this debate is always funny to me because it's always North Jersey and South Jersey people having the debate. It's like if people from Pittsburgh and Philly argued over whether or not Central PA existed instead of just asking the people who live there. For most people In Monmouth and Ocean, North Jersey starts when you cross the Raritan River. I think it's more about the industry and urban development along the Parkway and Turnpike up that way than any cultural observation. A large majority of people claim that the area is Central Jersey and if asked would probably say that South Jersey starts in some vague area half way between Toms River and Manahawkin. Mercer is also Central Jersey. Most people see Ft. Dix as the dividing line to the south/west. If you're north of it you're in Central Jersey. If you're south or west of it it's South Jersey.

In terms of the culture, I'd say it depends on where your family is from. If they just moved down from Staten Island or Bergen County then they're going to have more of a New York orientation (and if you ever want to get an eye roll from someone from Monmouth Co., be pushy while telling them you just moved down from North Jersey while also suggesting that you're currently in South Jersey.)

Someone who is 3rd generation from Freehold just doesn't identify with NYC in the way that someone who is 3rd generation from Cherry Hill is going to identify with Philly. Manhattan is just too far away. Most people in the area work somewhere locally or maybe commute to Middlesex or Mercer County. NYC commuting isn't as big as people think it is and it drops off precipitously once you hit the one hour commute mark - which is roughly at the Navesink River/520 which is the road that runs from Red Bank (train to NYC) to Marlboro (express bus). If you're north of Red Bank there's a much stronger North Jersey/NYC jobs pull that dissipates rapidly so that by the time you're down to Route 33 (Asbury/Freehold) it's almost nonexistent.



Most places get both channels and some places further north only get 6 ABC from Philly. It depends on what your cable company is.

My dad's side of the family is from Asbury Park - he's 3rd generation Asbury area. My grandparents still lived on Deal Lake in Asbury until I was 11 or 12. Their accents are much more like South Jersey accents than my mom's North Jersey family. As kids we had debates in school all the time - is it pronounced BAY-gul or BEH-gul? Is it water or wooder?

When my grandparents lived in Asbury we lived in Brick. But then they moved to Brick and we moved up to the Long Branch area so my parent's commutes would be easier. The electrification for the trains to Penn Station only runs as far south as Long Branch so if you lived south of there it used to be that your commute was an extra 10 minutes because of the change to diesel in Long Branch. Anyway, In Brick we got both channels. In the Asbury Park Press the TV listings were even printed like that. A show on CBS would say CBS 2/10, NBC 3/4, ABC 6/7. It was kind of cool back then because you could easily watch sports from both cities (My parents eventually retired and moved out to southern Chester County, PA and it was the same with Philly/Baltimore TV). When we moved up to Long Branch and had some weird cable company that's not around anymore (Storer?) we still got Philly ABC but family in Asbury and Belmar still got all 3. From what I hear 6 ABC was the last one carried by the cable companies in most of Monmouth but got dropped over some beef between the NY and Philly affiliates. As far as I know, most of Ocean County still gets TV from both cities. Only at the far southern end is it Philly only.

My dad grew up a Mets fan but he accidentally raised us as Phillies fans because the Vet was so much easier to get to than driving all the way to Queens. Especially from Brick. It was a straight shot on Route 70 down to 295 and there was rarely much traffic back then, especially on the weekends. The Phillies get increasingly popular from Asbury and points south and even more if you go west. There are plenty of people who are Sixers and Flyers fans in Monmouth County but otherwise most sports had a North Jersey orientation because it was all in the Meadowlands or Newark. It was an easy drive or train ride to get up there.

In terms of summer tourism - there's always been a noticeable Philly presence in Asbury Park, especially over the last 20 years, but other than that it's less so people from Philly or South Jersey as it is people from Bucks and MontCo, many of whom are about an hour from Avon, Belmar, and Spring Lake. It would take twice as long for them to get down to Ocean City. Not that a lot of people don't do it anyway.

Nice post. However, as far as I know, all of Ocean County receives NYC TV. It's technically part of the NYC DMA as well, and thus any cable channel re-alignment and satellite/streaming service will fall under NYC not Philly.

There is one interesting side note. Long time ago, Garden State Cable used to be the primary cable operator of Cherry Hill and a lot of towns nearby. It was fully purchased by Comcast later. But, it served New Egypt, NJ, which is technically Ocean County, and provided only Philly stations from its Cherry Hill base.

When I'd travel up to Edison and check out the TV Guide sold up there, it'd be NYC listings only, but have some Connecticut channels like WTNH8 listing.

You mentioned Raritan River as a separation between North and Central, which is a new classification to me. Edison is north of it, and my relatives in Edison is insist they are in Central NJ, although in SJ, it was always viewed as North Jersey. I can understand their viewpoint of it in Central NJ sense there and by the Menlo Park Mall, but just a quick drive to Woodbridge, it feels more industrial and less like what Central NJ as whole, with Rahway very close to it.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by g555

Nice post. However, as far as I know, all of Ocean County receives NYC TV. It's technically part of the NYC DMA as well, and thus any cable channel re-alignment and satellite/streaming service will fall under NYC not Philly.

I'm pretty sure Tuckerton is part of the Philly market. Would be good to hear from someone who is from there. But my cousin lives in Manahawkin and, from being there, I know she gets both Philly and NYC network TV.

There is one interesting side note. Long time ago, Garden State Cable used to be the primary cable operator of Cherry Hill and a lot of towns nearby. It was fully purchased by Comcast later. But, it served New Egypt, NJ, which is technically Ocean County, and provided only Philly stations from its Cherry Hill base.

When I'd travel up to Edison and check out the TV Guide sold up there, it'd be NYC listings only, but have some Connecticut channels like WTNH8 listing.

AFAIK, most of southern Middlesex gets at least 6 ABC. I'd never heard that anyone in any part of Middlesex got TV from CT. That's wild.

You mentioned Raritan River as a separation between North and Central, which is a new classification to me. Edison is north of it, and my relatives in Edison is insist they are in Central NJ, although in SJ, it was always viewed as North Jersey. I can understand their viewpoint of it in Central NJ sense there and by the Menlo Park Mall, but just a quick drive to Woodbridge, it feels more industrial and less like what Central NJ as whole, with Rahway very close to it.

Yeah, Edison and Piscataway definitely have more of a Central Jersey vibe. I wasn't trying to say that area definitely isn't Central. I think people from Monmouth/Ocean use the Raritan as the dividing line is because when you head north on the Parkway you're crossing into the tank farms around Perth Amboy - it's just night and day on the different sides of the Driscoll Bridge.

Take this with a grain of salt but I found this map interesting because it's asking people "do you live in North/Central/South Jersey?" https://www.nj.com/news/2015/04/mapp...south_jer.html

[ocnjgirl]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

I'm pretty sure Tuckerton is part of the Philly market. Would be good to hear from someone who is from there. But my cousin lives in Manahawkin and, from being there, I know she gets both Philly and NYC network TV.



AFAIK, most of southern Middlesex gets at least 6 ABC. I'd never heard that anyone in any part of Middlesex got TV from CT. That's wild.



Yeah, Edison and Piscataway definitely have more of a Central Jersey vibe. I wasn't trying to say that area definitely isn't Central. I think people from Monmouth/Ocean use the Raritan as the dividing line is because when you head north on the Parkway you're crossing into the tank farms around Perth Amboy - it's just night and day on the different sides of the Driscoll Bridge.

Take this with a grain of salt but I found this map interesting because it's asking people "do you live in North/Central/South Jersey?" https://www.nj.com/news/2015/04/mapp...south_jer.html

But when she turns on local ABC, CBS or NBC news at 5, is it Philly news or NYC news? Is the Fox Sunday game Giants or Eagles?

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by ocnjgirl

But when she turns on local ABC, CBS or NBC news at 5, is it Philly news or NYC news? Is the Fox Sunday game Giants or Eagles?

She gets stations from both cities. Are you asking if she picks New York or Philly? Neither. She has 3 kids, she doesn't have time for the evening news, and I know she doesn't care about football. Except for the 2 years I was in Australia I haven't had cable TV in about 15 years at this point. I would occasionally watch the local news in Brisbane but aside from that I can't remember the last time I've watched a local news broadcast. I have a digital antenna but I only break it out for sporting events that I can't stream.

To get to the spirit of your question - Her husband works in AC and not that they go to Philly very often but it's definitely more often than NYC and everyone in my extended family who has needed specialist medical care goes to Philly - not New York. But otherwise their orientation is New Jersey. Not a city in a different state. That's sort of the essence of being from Central Jersey.

[g555]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

I'm pretty sure Tuckerton is part of the Philly market. Would be good to hear from someone who is from there. But my cousin lives in Manahawkin and, from being there, I know she gets both Philly and NYC network TV.



AFAIK, most of southern Middlesex gets at least 6 ABC. I'd never heard that anyone in any part of Middlesex got TV from CT. That's wild.



Yeah, Edison and Piscataway definitely have more of a Central Jersey vibe. I wasn't trying to say that area definitely isn't Central. I think people from Monmouth/Ocean use the Raritan as the dividing line is because when you head north on the Parkway you're crossing into the tank farms around Perth Amboy - it's just night and day on the different sides of the Driscoll Bridge.

Take this with a grain of salt but I found this map interesting because it's asking people "do you live in North/Central/South Jersey?" https://www.nj.com/news/2015/04/mapp...south_jer.html

All of Ocean County is the NYC DMA.

Nielsen typically doesn't split up counties. However, I recall Solano County in California was split between SF and Sacramento tv markets, but not sure if that is the case still.

I don't think any of the CT channels were available in NJ. Just that the TV Guide book that was sold in North/Central NJ would include listings of those channels.

Anyways, this fascination of channel listings of mine was all before the internet made this information so easily accessible, and back when it was typical that local station in Philadelphia was pre-empting a network show, and could tell the NYC station wasn't. Many people also liked the additional sports and entertainment programming from out of market stations. Nowadays, the difference in TV stations of an affiliate is very little except for news.

[mike0421]

The Ocean/Burlington County line. Continue that southeast to the northwest trajectory to just between Phillipsburg to Belvidere to the Delaware River. Phillipsburg identifies more with the Philadelphia media.

[NYtoNJtoPA]

Originally Posted by mike0421

The Ocean/Burlington County line. Continue that southeast to the northwest trajectory to just between Phillipsburg to Belvidere to the Delaware River. Phillipsburg identifies more with the Philadelphia media.

Only because it's directly across the river from Easton, PA and is thus part of the Lehigh Valley Metro area, which is the fastest growing region of PA, though it has become a haven for NJ transplants, mostly from North Jersey that is. I'd say it's about 50/50 NYC/Philly influence there.

I never heard anyone call Warren or Hunterdon Counties South Jersey.

[Gerania]

Originally Posted by mike0421

The Ocean/Burlington County line. Continue that southeast to the northwest trajectory to just between Phillipsburg to Belvidere to the Delaware River. Phillipsburg identifies more with the Philadelphia media.

I don't like the Keith Line or the Lawrence Line.