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Rather than continue a never-ending back and forth and respond to more diversions, I'm going to close now.
In conclusion:
I laid out criteria that I believe to be indicators of a city's vitality. These are essentially that (a) the city is not a ghetto, and (b) rich people are willing to live there.
I explained how Philly meets both of these criteria, and Newark does not.
I addressed some red herrings. For example, it was proposed that Detroit met these criteria. I showed that it does not.
I'm not going to further respond to claims that Philly is "the same" as Detroit or Newark, or any other city you care to name. I've already articulated that these claims are incorrect, per (1) and (2).
I'm not going to respond to further diversions. If you'd like to discuss Philly with people who are familiar with the city, I'd suggest you post your questions to the Philly forum.
Let it be known, I did not pull Philly into this mix, I argue falsehoods and inconsistencies as I see them.
It is a known fact that Philly is plagued w/ crime and IS ghetto (w/ the exception of a few 'notable' areas, and is many things you claim it not to be in the links I provided)
when all is said and done...you've proved nothing. See me on city-vs-city if you must. (no hard-feelings and no offense ever intended btw)
Let's say you graduate college, get a well-paying job, and get married and have kids? Would you want to move them back to Newark?
No, I never want to come back to Newark again
Newark is a total dump. I cannot stress this enough. The gang presence here is overwhelming, especially in the schools. The fact that I can walk down toward Grafton ave right now and buy weed, or any drug, if I wanted too is a problem. It's just not a good place to live in at all. The only halfway decent area is Ironbound if you're single with no family.
But the biggest issue for me was the schools. Like I said I went to Barringer High School. For 4 years, that school screwed me in anyway they could. Physically it's a dump, it's run poorly, bad teachers, GANGS AND DRUGS, the list goes on. The problem is that most of the students don't give a damn. While the people running everything(board of education) don't care either. Meanwhile the few students and teachers that do end up getting ****ed. Even now after I graduated, the school is still screwing me over. Not putting a graduation date on my final transcript which I need to receive financial aid. Something as simple as that, and somehow they screwed it up. Really just sums up how bad the schools are in Newark.And with the budget cuts it's going to get much worse.
Bottom line, I would never want my kids or wife to deal with the things I had to deal with growing up. My parents were immigrants that didn't know any better. So I try really hard not to blame them. Honestly, I feel that white person, or any half decent human being, who decides to move into Newark really doesn't fully understand what they are getting into. The city has a bad rep for a reason. I wouldn't even recommend it to my worse enemy. This is not a place you want to raise a family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey
Whats the hold up , i know residents who want this to go through. Is it money? Why does everything in the Central take 2x longer then the other wards?
Because it's Newark
The simplest things rarely get done correctly in this city
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201
Im 18 and living in North Newark too.
I moved here last month though. I came here because Essex county college it's a quick drive away and the rent is cheap..
So far so good, I would of never imagined myself living alone in a one bedroom apt in Newark (though I have friends in the same building), but it's honestly worth the relatively cheap rent. The area reminds me of Bloomfield or Belleville, so crime isn't too much of an issue. I'm 5 blocks from branch brook park, and living on Mt Prospect gives me access to a lot- The landlord also allowed my big doberman to live in the unit if I paid an extra $50 a month. I couldn't imagine myself looking for a place that even allowed a dog half that size.
I work in JC though.
When people think Newark they're most likely thinking of the lost souls in Western portions of Newark. Twista couldn't of explained it any better.
You've only lived here for one month. Give it a few more months. After awhile you'll understand why Newark is the dump it is today.
Protip: Most of the liquor stores on Mt. Prospect don't ask for ID. If you like to drink.
Edit: Btw say hi to some of my classmates for me; over half of barringer ends up in ECC anyway
Ivy Hill towers are indeed taller than anything in South Orange. And...?
No, South Orange and Maplewood are not high crime suburbs. You say they are but then say that numbers for 2008 don't reflect that. It can't be both. If the numbers are only bad for this year that only serves to say that it didn't increase until just now...and Newark's had high crime for decades.
The original posting I responded to said that there was no indication that one was in Newark or Maplewood, the only indication was a Walgreens. I'm saying that it's actually quite obvious that the shift is more dramatic than that, Ivy Hill is not a desirable place to live and is quite crime-ridden. The landscape of high-rise housing projects is clearly urban and is not indicative of Maplewood or South Orange.
I said they are not high crime relative to Newark, but Newark's crime rates are very high. Maplewood and South Orange both have higher crime rates than other nearby suburbs as Summit, Millburn, West Orange and Montclair. So, in the scheme of things I would say they are on the higher end of crime in suburbs, in the 200-400 index over the past ten years as opposed to Summit or Millburn under 100.
Many residents living on the border areas of South Orange (from the border of Seton Hall/Vailsburg down to Irvington Avenue, parts of Montrose and the border of Orange near Scotland Road) and Maplewood (Springfield Avenue/Irvington) experience crime rates in these areas that are disproportionately high compared to the areas of town "on the hill." As I said, feel free to check out crime reports on Maplewood or South Orange Patch, many of the crimes reported there are clustered in these neighborhoods.
How many people now here that have actually lived in Newark have confirmed what I (as a former Newark resident) have been saying?
The problem isn't the lack of funding or works projects. It's the general social morale of the city. Maybe not so much in the Ironboubnd, but for the most part, households in the city are headed by a single parent. Most households are also apathetic about things like education and fiscal independence. It's always great hearing about someone from Newark getting a full ride to Princeton or Columbia but for every kid like that there are at least 100 his age in Newark who are living the thug life.
The original posting I responded to said that there was no indication that one was in Newark or Maplewood, the only indication was a Walgreens. I'm saying that it's actually quite obvious that the shift is more dramatic than that, Ivy Hill is not a desirable place to live and is quite crime-ridden. The landscape of high-rise housing projects is clearly urban and is not indicative of Maplewood or South Orange.
I said they are not high crime relative to Newark, but Newark's crime rates are very high. Maplewood and South Orange both have higher crime rates than other nearby suburbs as Summit, Millburn, West Orange and Montclair. So, in the scheme of things I would say they are on the higher end of crime in suburbs, in the 200-400 index over the past ten years as opposed to Summit or Millburn under 100.
Many residents living on the border areas of South Orange (from the border of Seton Hall/Vailsburg down to Irvington Avenue, parts of Montrose and the border of Orange near Scotland Road) and Maplewood (Springfield Avenue/Irvington) experience crime rates in these areas that are disproportionately high compared to the areas of town "on the hill." As I said, feel free to check out crime reports on Maplewood or South Orange Patch, many of the crimes reported there are clustered in these neighborhoods.
In my earlier post I pointed out that there is indeed spillover, but that even despite this the towns have low crime rates (or simply: not enough crime to turn these towns into a Roselle, or a Linden, not even Hillside).
You mention a dramatic shift? That is found on South Orange Ave. from South Orange to Newark. The trees and gas lamps stop and the concrete takes over completely. Irvington ave. (Maplewood-Newark), by contrast, has the new children's community center, a shopping center, and a new (finished?) police station.
The only thing that screams 'Newark' would be the Ivy Hill towers, but they're quite noticeably in the background and don't immediately abut Irvington ave. (which if that was the case, my language about this border would be drastically different)
Newark is a total dump. I cannot stress this enough. The gang presence here is overwhelming, especially in the schools. The fact that I can walk down toward Grafton ave right now and buy weed, or any drug, if I wanted too is a problem. It's just not a good place to live in at all. The only halfway decent area is Ironbound if you're single with no family.
But the biggest issue for me was the schools. Like I said I went to Barringer High School. For 4 years, that school screwed me in anyway they could. Physically it's a dump, it's run poorly, bad teachers, GANGS AND DRUGS, the list goes on. The problem is that most of the students don't give a damn. While the people running everything(board of education) don't care either. Meanwhile the few students and teachers that do end up getting ****ed. Even now after I graduated, the school is still screwing me over. Not putting a graduation date on my final transcript which I need to receive financial aid. Something as simple as that, and somehow they screwed it up. Really just sums up how bad the schools are in Newark.And with the budget cuts it's going to get much worse.
Bottom line, I would never want my kids or wife to deal with the things I had to deal with growing up. My parents were immigrants that didn't know any better. So I try really hard not to blame them. Honestly, I feel that white person, or any half decent human being, who decides to move into Newark really doesn't fully understand what they are getting into. The city has a bad rep for a reason. I wouldn't even recommend it to my worse enemy. This is not a place you want to raise a family.
Because it's Newark
The simplest things rarely get done correctly in this city
You've only lived here for one month. Give it a few more months. After awhile you'll understand why Newark is the dump it is today.
Protip: Most of the liquor stores on Mt. Prospect don't ask for ID. If you like to drink.
Edit: Btw say hi to some of my classmates for me; over half of barringer ends up in ECC anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDWP
As for what I think needs to be done in order to improve Newark:
-Force the poor people out
-Replace them with middle class families
-Fix up schools(you can do this by getting rid of corruption in the board of education)
But of course none of those things will be done
So you have given up on your hometown? The Poor are leaving and moving west into Urban PA. The Middle Class are moving back to certain areas , although by the end of the decade the whole city should have decent Middle Class population and Families should start moving back as well. Idk why they haven't cleaned out corruption yet , Christie should target that to free up the states wasteful spending. I think you have to give Newark at least 10 more years before giving up , its going to be a tough 10 years. Up and downs and improvements and destruction but i think 10 years form now Newark will be a smaller version of its neighbor JC.
In my earlier post I pointed out that there is indeed spillover, but that even despite this the towns have low crime rates (or simply: not enough crime to turn these towns into a Roselle, or a Linden, not even Hillside).
You mention a dramatic shift? That is found on South Orange Ave. from South Orange to Newark. The trees and gas lamps stop and the concrete takes over completely. Irvington ave. (Maplewood-Newark), by contrast, has the new children's community center, a shopping center, and a new (finished?) police station.
The only thing that screams 'Newark' would be the Ivy Hill towers, but they're quite noticeably in the background and don't immediately abut Irvington ave. (which if that was the case, my language about this border would be drastically different)
Low crime rates relative to Newark, Roselle, Linden, Hillside. Those aren't usually the places South Orange/Maplewood are lumped in with though. High crime rates relative to the other suburbs I mentioned in my last posts. Trust me, if you live on the border of Maplewood/Irvington or South Orange/Newark, South Orange/Orange, your experience of crime is different than someone living on the border of South Orange/West Orange or South Orange/Maplewood, crime rates or no. The rates are an average for the whole town, I'm saying as a resident that the spillover is obvious in these neighborhoods and feels like it's getting worse. Statistics might not reflect the specific reality myself and other residents are experiencing.
The dramatic shift on South Orange avenue is obvious, but to me it's obvious on Irvington Avenue as well.
Low crime rates relative to Newark, Roselle, Linden, Hillside. Those aren't usually the places South Orange/Maplewood are lumped in with though. High crime rates relative to the other suburbs I mentioned in my last posts. Trust me, if you live on the border of Maplewood/Irvington or South Orange/Newark, South Orange/Orange, your experience of crime is different than someone living on the border of South Orange/West Orange or South Orange/Maplewood, crime rates or no. The rates are an average for the whole town, I'm saying as a resident that the spillover is obvious in these neighborhoods and feels like it's getting worse. Statistics might not reflect the specific reality myself and other residents are experiencing.
The dramatic shift on South Orange avenue is obvious, but to me it's obvious on Irvington Avenue as well.
I've lived on Franklin terrace in Maplewood (immediately bordering Newark/Irvington) and yes there were incidents, but it paled in comparison to towns like Rahway etc. I'll cede, compared to Essex towns you mentioned SO/Mplwd have higher rates. However, I would consider those towns as doing good before I consider SO/Mplwd doing bad b/c there are a dozen examples of towns that have higher crime rates and don't have Newark as a border excuse.
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