The Low-down on Hackensack and Teaneck (and maybe Englewood) (Newark: for sale, apartments)

[dirimini]

OK, so I've got another thread going about apartments near Paramus, but after having gotten a couple of nods toward Hackensack, and having read through a few threads in the NJ forum, I have a few questions.

It seems that there are those who are just going to have a knee-jerk reaction and say that all three areas are "bad, crime-ridden, dirty" etc., while others have a more measured (and probably more realistic) viewpoint, noting that all three are far from "bad," although they have some sections that are better than others.

So, I'm looking to relocate temporarily from NYC due to a new job (which will be largely in Paramus, and partially in Lyndhurst), and now I'm curious about these three sites. The rents seem lower, they all seem to be relatively equidistant from both places, with relatively painless commutes (about 15 minutes to Paramus - but please tell me if that's overly optimistic, and if traffic is a bear), and many people have noted that all three have really beautiful areas.

I'm a long-time NYC-er, and there's a lot I don't like about locales that are too suburban, too "cutesy," too lockjawed - but I do like the quiet and (often) cleanliness of the 'burbs. So, for someone who doesn't require luxury, but who just wants to go home to a relatively safe, decent, and quiet (very important) apartment at the end of the day - would either Hackensack or Teaneck work? My budget's about $1200.

Thanks in advance - and to all the people who gave (and are giving) me advice on the other thread.

[dirimini]

<<*shameless bump*>>

[pbergen]

hackensack, teaneck, and englewood are perfectly fine options. these are all mixed race, mixed income towns that are more diverse (racially/ethnically and socioeconomically) than the average bergen county municipality. there are parts of each town that are considered somewhat less desirable by some, but each of the three also has large swaths of leafy, well-maintained middle and upper middle income areas. all three contain some very affluent neighborhoods as well.

of the three, teaneck probably has the largest middle class and the smallest percentage of residents who would be categorized as lower-to-lower-middle-income or working class. i would also say that its so-called "bad" area in the northeast part of town is nicer, leafier, and better maintained than its "bad" counterparts in hackensack and englewood. as a result, it shouldn't be surprising that teaneck has by far the highest median household income out of the three (i.e. incomes in this town are consistently middle class or better).

teaneck's most affluent section is north of route 4 in the northwest area near new milford and bergenfield. this is where you'll find most of teaneck's largest and nicest homes. the demographics in this section are overwhelmingly jewish. as mentioned earlier, the northeast section is not as well off by comparison (although certainly not a ghetto by any means) and has been an african-american enclave for at least 40 years. the other parts of town tend to be middle class and contain a mix of jews, african-americans, latinos, arabs, filipinos, indians, and so forth.

if you're going to be renting, you'll probably want to look at the central part of town near cedar lane. cedar lane is the largest of the town's business districts and is surrounded by a mix of apartments and single family homes.

englewood has by far the largest percentage of very high net worth households - check out the large swath of land in the east hill (northeast and southeast) section of town near englewood cliffs that's filled with beautiful early 20th century mansions. that part of town is heavily white, especially jewish.

meanwhile, the northwest side of town bordering tenafly and bergenfield is primarily lower-middle-to-middle income and is racially diverse, with large numbers of african-americans and latinos and smaller numbers of non-hispanic whites and asians. this area is respectable for the most part despite the negative things said about it, but at the same time it does have certain streets that are somewhat sketchy and poorly-maintained, especially as you get closer to west palisade ave and near the railroad tracks separating the east and west sides of town.

finally, the southwest quadrant of town is the much-maligned so-called "hood"; this area has long been home to working-class african-americans and, in recent years, an increasing number of latinos. this area houses the great majority of the city's poor (who in turn constitute a relatively small proportion of the overall population) and has a couple of housing projects, occasional low-level property and street crime, more litter than the rest of the town, and a higher number of poorly-maintained houses. that said, there are still plenty of homeowners in this area who take pride in their homes and neighborhood; on those particular streets, it looks just like any other middle class suburb, with leafy, mature trees, modest but clean homes, and frequent block parties during the summer.

there are also some brand new luxury rentals and condos along route 4. i have generally heard pretty good things about these residential units, which are separated from the working class residential side of southwest englewood by a series of warehouses and light industrial buildings. in essence, these newer luxury units are their own self-contained neighborhood; i wouldn't worry about the fact that they're located in the "bad" side of town since they're really isolated from everything else in town.

while it's true that the flat western side of englewood (especially the southwestern quadrant, or 4th ward) is markedly less ritzy than the east side and is below average compared to most bergen county towns, i think a lot of the reason why it gets hated on is because of its racial/ethnic demographics. i mean, there are some people on here who talk about it as if it's irvington or camden, which is ridiculous. there are also a bunch of ignoramuses who mistakenly believe that the uber-wealthy east hill section of the city is part of englewood cliffs and that "the hood" constitutes the entirety of englewood.

largely because of the east hill section, englewood has a well above average per capita income that is the highest of these three towns. OTOH its median household income is in the average range - considerably lower than teaneck's, but considerably higher than hackensack's. it doesn't have as large of a solid middle class as teaneck - residents tend to be upper middle-to-upper income on one hand or lower middle-to-working class on the other - which accounts for the middling median income level.

finally, there's hackensack, which is another town that gets grief from some but in reality has a mix of nice, average, and below average neighborhoods. the nice parts of town (summit and prospect aves, especially north of essex) are filled with old mansions and late 20th century luxury high rises. the so-called ghetto (central hackensack) is a low-lying flood plain that has long been an african-american stronghold; this area is primarily working class and has the highest amount of crime in town, although i have to stress that much of it is similar to englewood's crime (i.e. relatively minor). the northern parts of town east of prospect and north of passaic contain a mix of backgrounds and incomes, but is more or less middle class, while the southeastern parts of town near south hackensack tend to be working class and latino.

while hackensack is the least affluent of your three selections, it still has several sections which are really nice places to live, especially along the summit/prospect corridor. as in englewood and teaneck, the "bad" parts of town are compartmentalized and don't seem to influence the adjacent nicer areas (probably because they're not that bad to begin with - they're worn around the edges rather than truly ghetto). you'll probably want to look into apartments along or near prospect, since that's where most of the city's nicest rentals are located.

if i were you, i would locate a few apartments in these three towns, then post again with the addresses (or at least the nearest intersection) so that the bergen county guys on this site can advise you about the quality and safety of that specific neighborhood. but really, all three towns are going to offer nice housing options in safe areas that would be suitable to an upwardly mobile professional such as yourself.

[dirimini]

Wow, pbergen. I can't say "thanks" enough for all of that incredibly helpful information.

[looksrich]

i'd reiterate what pbergen said, he knows his stuff..

coming from NYC (like myself) i'd say englewood's palisade ave has the most "NY" feel of all three..

restaurants, shopping, cafes, grocers, fast food, gym, banks all in one area.. mix of wealthy, middle, and lower income on one strip (and off-strips).. though you can sense the unofficial "divide" of the literal railroad tracks in terms of economic class, people generally get along.. the downtown seems to be getting ritzier from my experience.

[dirimini]

Thanks, looksrich.

I've been through both Englewood and Teaneck a couple of times - on buses, traveling through - and to be honest, I never thought either of them (even in the "not so pretty" areas) looked particularly "bad," foreboding, or scary. Maybe NYC-ers have a different litmus test for what constitutes "bad."

[looksrich]

Originally Posted by dirimini

Thanks, looksrich.

I've been through both Englewood and Teaneck a couple of times - on buses, traveling through - and to be honest, I never thought either of them (even in the "not so pretty" areas) looked particularly "bad," foreboding, or scary. Maybe NYC-ers have a different litmus test for what constitutes "bad."

there are no "truly bad" towns in bergen county.. if you want to see the rough parts of north nj (comparative to Upper East Harlem) you'd have to go to Essex County - Irvington, Newark, East Orange..

people who generally call Teaneck or Englewood "bad" probably didn't grow up in a real city..

granted some of the wannabe "thugs" from the middle/high-schools can be damn annoying - i'll give'em one day in my old NYC 'hood (although now gentrified) and you wouldn't hear a 'peep' from them, they are mostly harmless.

[dirimini]

Yes, I've been to Newark - and from an outsider's perspective, I couldn't imagine anyone comparing Teaneck to Newark. I was just wondering if maybe I was too much an outsider to understand what people were talking about, if Teaneck (or Hackensack) really were that bad - but I think now it appears my gut reaction was right.

[pinky92]

How is the area around fort lee road? I saw a house for sale around there that I may be interested in, but there were buildings too. Are these condos? co-ops? Is this a noisy and/or bad area with people making noise or loitering about? I'd really appreciate your input. Thanks in advance.

[openheads]

Honestly....................... You'll be fine in all 3 places. The only people who have a problem with any of the aforementioned places are sheltered, come from a homogeneous environment & cling to what they know & fear everything else.