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I'm through. Glad this mosque location finally brings out how PEOPLE REALLY FEEL ABOUT OTHERS.
IT'S GREAT TO BE AN AMERICAN
Have a great weekend.
if you lived in a muslim country, this wouldnt be an issue. non-islamic religious places arent allowed. also, converting from islam to another religion can get you killed.
IMO I think the majority of muslim people are embarrassed by this incident because its like they are walking around with a giant "T" on their back.
They're being criticized for the religion they practice, the clothing they wear and the birth place.
Anyone would be embarrassed but are they proud people, yes they are.
Just pisses me off that people feel that a how culture is being blamed for what some crazies decided to do in the so called name of Allah.
I don't criticize them.
They're generally the most peaceful groups of people in this nation. But no matter how bad they're labled here in the US, they know they're better off here than sticking it out in their native nations.
yes i have. apparantly you have not. you keep saying you're not, but then you're saying the text encourages violence. i hate to break it to you, but the text encourages whatever the hell people interpret it to encourage them to do.
you're painting muslims with the brush of being inspipred to violence by their religion. whether you see it or not, that's what you're doing.
Re-read my posts. It's not my fault you're unable to comprehend my position despite explicity explaining it.
I didn't want to pull these out, but here ya go:
"Cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denything the truth; strike, then, their necks!" (8.12)
"Strike terror into God's enemies, and your enemies" (8.60)
"Seek out your enemies relentlessly" (Surah 4:103)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121)
"As for the unbelievers for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowles and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods." (Sura 22:9)
This is the religious text. Sure, the interpretation could be debated, but that still does not change the fact that there are parts of the Koran that encourages violence and hatred. Since you and a couple others are unable to accept that I've separated the moderates from the radicals, let me say it again: I don't believe moderate Muslims support or are connected with the radicals. They should not be lumped together. But that does not change the fact that the holy text of Islam encourages violence and hatred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
you're removing the fact that they are acting in political interests, and using religion as a cloak for those interests.
you then say "The Japanese attack had little to do with religion and more to do with American policy in Asia, American-Japanese relations (which were not good), as well as economics. Political and economic relationships can change. Religious belief usually does not."
the 9/11 attacks have everything to do with political and economic relationships as well. and American policy in the middle east. and various other items. religion is the excuse, not the inspiration.
I never claimed otherwise. In an earlier post, I pointed out that American foreign policy in the Middle East is also to blame. But it's also important to mention that radical Islam is preventing the western world from having a civil relationship with the Middle East. Religion didn't serve to divide the Americans and Japanese after WWII. Unfortunately now it's keep us from moving forward with the Middle East.
if you lived in a muslim country, this wouldnt be an issue. non-islamic religious places arent allowed. also, converting from islam to another religion can get you killed.
i love this argument. so let's be more like them then and less like us. we're well on our way!
Re-read my posts. It's not my fault you're unable to comprehend my position despite explicity explaining it.
I didn't want to pull these out, but here ya go:
"Cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denything the truth; strike, then, their necks!" (8.12)
"Strike terror into God's enemies, and your enemies" (8.60)
"Seek out your enemies relentlessly" (Surah 4:103)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121)
"As for the unbelievers for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowles and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods." (Sura 22:9)
This is the religious text. Sure, the interpretation could be debated, but that still does not change the fact that there are parts of the Koran that encourages violence and hatred. Since you and a couple others are unable to accept that I've separated the moderates from the radicals, let me say it again: I don't believe moderate Muslims support or are connected with the radicals. They should not be lumped together. But that does not change the fact that the holy text of Islam encourages violence and hatred.
I never claimed otherwise. In an earlier post, I pointed out that American foreign policy in the Middle East is also to blame. But it's also important to mention that radical Islam is preventing the western world from having a civil relationship with the Middle East. Religion didn't serve to divide the Americans and Japanese after WWII. Unfortunately now it's keep us from moving forward with the Middle East.
thank you for your scholarly posting of "religious text". 1. you take it completely out of the context of what it was written as. just as the extremists do.
in your interpretation, which sounds fairly uneducated or even the slightest bit informed, you believe that the religious text of Islam encourages violence and hatred.
i'm glad your interpretation matches conveniently with the point you're trying to make. now talk to scholars, read the entire text, and then tell me you believe it encourages violence and hatred.
you clearly have a primitive understanding of the text.
again, i recognize your saying not all Muslims are extreme and some are moderate. but you clearly are stating that you believe the text they all follow is encouraging violence and hatred.
you're ignoring the fact that the ONLY people who share that interpretation of the text happen to be the extremists with a political ideology that is anti-american for many economic and social reasons, completely separated from the religion.
so it's clear that you don't care that you're primitively informed on the text, yet will quote it and say something as a fact.
you're taking it out of context, as many do with religious text, to support your personal view of it.
I saw the link you posted, but that doesn't have to do with me. I'm not Christian.
I have more muslim friends than the typical non-muslim person. The muslims I know are EMBARRASSED by this whole situation- It's further giving them the bad name you speak of. Generalizations and stereotypes will always exist for every religion/culture/race, Muslims have it the worst.
yes yes. you're quite correct. it's tough to overcome those generalizations. and i feel ashamed as an american and as a friend of many muslims that small groups of people get such a large voice.
if the victims' families feel offended, it should be duly noted, and that's nice, but it doesn't really matter in what ultimately happens. they're offended for the wrong reasons though. if this was an extremist group that was trying to tarnish ground zero - be offended. but nothing shows that's what they are except for some outlandish claims from people who aren't even closely tied to the victims or their families.
anyways. i've had about enough of this one. it's been approached at every angle possible.
some people just won't grasp that things happen in the world for political and economical reasons. they've happened for centuries. an easy scape goat to blame is religions, especially in a time where groups have gathered outside of the realm of a country or established government.
The Japanese attack had little to do with religion and more to do with American policy in Asia, American-Japanese relations (which were not good), as well as economics. Political and economic relationships can change. Religious belief usually does not.
...and the difference is?
If you have no concept of the policies of the U.S. in the Middle East and the history of the region, then you will never understand why there are terrorists.
We created the problem, there, I said it. Our never ending quest for oil and the desire to beat the Soviets led us to do a lot of unsavory things in the Middle East that we are only beginning to make amends for in small ways. Just as America's actions towards the expanding regional power of Japan led us down a path to war, so did our actions in the Middle East create the situation that led to the rise of terrorists.
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