Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-30-2010, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,960 posts, read 83,789,860 times
Reputation: 114145

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Huh? What about the families of the dead who DON'T support it?!?!?

What would you expect from supporters?
And what would you expect from non-supporters?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-30-2010, 12:54 PM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,355,453 times
Reputation: 1538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
And what would you expect from non-supporters?
EXACTLY

I just felt the need to point it out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,960 posts, read 83,789,860 times
Reputation: 114145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
EXACTLY

I just felt the need to point it out.
Well, I'm glad you had your needs met.

I just wanted to point out that not all the families disagree with the idea behind the mosque.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,328,292 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Well, I'm glad you had your needs met.

I just wanted to point out that not all the families disagree with the idea behind the mosque.
in fact, it seems as though when you do some digging, it's tougher to find families that disagree than ones that don't care. but it's still not clear either way. i think this blew up in the media into a much bigger story than it was. probably to cause some more divisiveness before november elections.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2010, 03:17 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,251 posts, read 13,752,856 times
Reputation: 3167
I apologize for making this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2010, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
412 posts, read 1,323,164 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
in fact, it seems as though when you do some digging, it's tougher to find families that disagree than ones that don't care. but it's still not clear either way. i think this blew up in the media into a much bigger story than it was. probably to cause some more divisiveness before november elections.
I agree because the Muslims have been worshipping there for a while and it didn't become an issue until the media made it one.

Also, look what happened in Tennessee. A mosque was being built and it mysterially, sorry for my spelling, burnt to the ground and SUPPOSEDLY no one knows why but there was opposition for it being built there.

This is what I mean that this Anti-Muslim campaign goes far beyond New York City, Ground Zero and 9/11.

It's pure hatred.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,328,292 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201 View Post
I apologize for making this thread.
no no - it's a good discussion. we all get passionate about things. but for the most part, i think it stayed away from becoming a total flame-war.

enjoy though. as i've got to stop looking at this. i'll see you all in other threads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2010, 03:26 PM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,328 posts, read 20,666,117 times
Reputation: 9852
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
no no - it's a good discussion. we all get passionate about things. but for the most part, i think it stayed away from becoming a total flame-war.

enjoy though. as i've got to stop looking at this. i'll see you all in other threads.
I agree, BPerone, don't apologize. It made me think twice about an issue that both sides of the aisle would generically identify either way. In my case, it made me think a little more out of the box than with most issues, because it is more complex.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,251 posts, read 13,752,856 times
Reputation: 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I've posted a lot about this on the POC thread, and feel about mosqued out, but since I'm a lifelong Jersey girl and a survivor of the WTC attacks, I'll take a stab at putting out my throughts here.

Re the 911 families, please take a few minutes to click on this link to familiarize yourself with these 911 families who don't oppose the mosque.

Peaceful Tomorrows*:*Index

Re the size of the mosque: 13 stories (or 15, I've seen both, but the original NY Times articles that were published before the negative NY Post article set off the controversry said 13) is pretty big for that type of facility, IMO, and the Upper East Side Jewish Community Center after which they are modeling it is only 9 stories. However, bear in mind the size and complexity of the property whose proximity to this mosque is at the crux of the arguments.

This is a 13/15 story glass rectangular building, I'm guessing 100 feet wide along a short city block (I've been on the block a number of times, saw the Muslims going in and out for more than a year. No bombs, no beheadings that I noticed). On the street immediately to the south are buildings far taller--Silverstein's WTC 7, at 47 stories, and the Verizon Building, which is also 40-something.

Then you have the World Trade Center itself. At the northwest corner, One WTC's steel is already in the 30's and will be 1776 feet tall with its spires (88 actual floors, I believe). At the southeast corner is Four WTC, already above street level and going for 61 stories. Along that eastern side will be Two and Three, at 78 and 71 stories respectively.

So just how "big" is that 15-story mosque two blocks from the northern perimeter of the WTC, physically and metaphorically? I don't see what they've conquered.

What it really comes down to are the Muslims. As they sing in The Mob Song in Disney's Beauty and The Beast, "We don't like/what we don't/understand, in fact it scares us." Here in New Jersey and across the creek in the city, we already know that there are probably terrorist-minded Muslims living amongst us. They were here before 1993 and I've no doubt that they still are. It's a part of reality in this time and place. The danger, and the wrongfulness, is in attributing the aims of a subset of one group to the entire group. I already know how this works. When asked in the 1990's why they would kill American soldiers in Somalia on a food and rescue mission, Osama bin Laden replied, "Why should we believe that's why the Americans were there? Everywhere Americans go, they kill Muslim children and occupy Muslim lands." This guy's got thousands of followers who believe that the aim of the United States is to wipe out the Muslim world. If, as I am lead to believe from reading the POC threads, we hang on to the belief that Muslims are out to impose religious law on/take over the United States and are therefore evil by virtue of being Muslim, how isn't that just the mirror image of what the terrorists think of us?

Maybe it's easier to lump people together than to dig a little deeper into the complexities of humanity and resolve to get to know people as individuals and not groups, but it doesn't seem to be working. At any rate, we are going to be witnessing more and more how Muslims are influenced by American culture, not just the other way around. They are going to have to interact with us as much as we are going to have to interact with them, and people are people.

I just do wish people would stifle their emotions a bit on this issue and at least get a rudimentary education about the people associated with the mosque instead of getting wild stories from Internet sites with agendas. It blows me away that we read repeatedly how if these Muslims have their way, we are one step closer to wearing burqas, when we've never seen a photo of the wife of the Park Place imam even wearing a head scarf.
15 stories being big in the literal sense isn't what I meant- But the attention it would get because of its size is the significance. This mosque is going to attract tourism, Verizon and Silverstein WTC #7 are just office building where people work.

I appreciate and understand where your post is coming from.
But why can't the developers respect what the vast majority of the victims families request? Christian churches are bombed in the middle east- I know of 6+ accounts like this in Baghdad alone. They should be thankful they escaped that mayhem simply reconsider its location based off the outrage it caused fellow Americans. It's not too much to ask. I even believe they were offered a new location for cheaper, and they denied.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,251 posts, read 13,752,856 times
Reputation: 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
no no - it's a good discussion. we all get passionate about things. but for the most part, i think it stayed away from becoming a total flame-war.

enjoy though. as i've got to stop looking at this. i'll see you all in other threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
I agree, BPerone, don't apologize. It made me think twice about an issue that both sides of the aisle would generically identify either way. In my case, it made me think a little more out of the box than with most issues, because it is more complex.

I've learned more than I had originally as well.
I'm not as against it anymore, but I still believe they should move it in case of further mayhem such as vandalism. I'd hate to see the Mosque built there and then see graffiti and other damage committed on it-For the sake of peace on both ends, just move it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top