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What Zhelder said in his post is pretty much right on, but I would add a couple things...
The thing that is weird to me about Essex that I don't see in Bergen is that in their supposedly "nice" or "affluent" neighborhoods/towns you will come across bizarrely misplaced buildings and structures. For example, in the midst of homes, you will come across a small corporate office, or some kind of weird tower for power lines or phone, or some other such structure. It seems they have no problem building nice homes amongst such things. In Bergen County, it seems that great measures are taken to keep residential areas separate from such structures, especially in the "nice" or "affluent" areas.
Also, it seems to me that the people in the more affluent sections of Essex County are way more snooty and tend to project their snootiness. It's ironic because they also tend to live within several miles of a crime-ridden ghetto yet they are so prideful of their "affluent suburb". Bergen County has its share of snooty people but many here are also second+ generation and much more down to earth.
Oh, and the traffic in Essex is MUCH, much worse than it is in Bergen.
Or fifth-generation Bergen County, like me. (Until I moved to Monmouth last year, hehehe.)
Bergen County only gained its snootiness a couple decades ago. Before he died in 1999, my mother liked to regularly remind my father how she wanted to buy a few acres in Franklin Lakes in the 1960's but he didn't want to live in an area that was nothing but "little dirt farms".
Passaic County also has some nice towns and property taxes lower than Essex and Bergen Counties. And no I am not referring to Paterson.
We need more info. What is your daily commute?
Also known as "upcounty". If you look at a map, you will see that Passaic County is very roughly a figure eight. The upper part of the 8 is almost rural in some parts.
Your sort of right...Orange has Seven Oaks but it's not what it used to be...East Orange "affluent area is a small area near the Bloomfield/Glen Ridge border but has slid further than Seven Oaks.
These days, nothing's what it used to be. Hell, you guys may think I'm crazy, but I remember when Irvington and East Orange were actually pretty decent towns (not Millburn types but decent). Then Newark dumped its projects and came off its 90's crime highs, but the bad migration continued westward.
I grew up in Bergen County. We had pet chickens in the backyard. The people behind us had horses.
OK, so people don't keep chickens in the new suburbia anymore, but I think there are a heck of a lot more trees and open space in Franklin Lakes or Ridgewood than in Bloomfield or Belleville. And Bergen has nothing anywhere near a Newark as far as urban-ness goes.
Teaneck, Hackensack would be better comparables for urbanity to Belleville, Bloomfield. The two former may actually be more urban than the two latter.
Teaneck, Hackensack would be better comparables for urbanity to Belleville, Bloomfield. The two former may actually be more urban than the two latter.
Oh well, if you're going to talk about THAT side of Bergen County...
I just did a search on towns on Essex County, and there are some I never realized were part of Essex. I thought Essex was mainly Newark, the Oranges, and a few other more urban towns. I knew Montclair was Essex, and that runs the gamut from mansions to slums, but I didn't realize Cedar Grove or Nutley or Glen Ridge were in Essex, too.
Look at our old friends stereotype & generalization making a predictable appearance.
There are plenty of non "snooty" type towns in Bergen Co. I would hardly call towns like Lodi or Garfield "snooty". It seems like the uninformed are always have the biggest mouths on C-D.
West Orange is the affluent one. And South Orange is OK, it's where Seton Hall is. East Orange used to be very affluent, I've heard many stories about how that place thrived more than 40 years ago, but all those big houses were either knocked down or converted into multiple families as the Newark elements spread in. The same type of thing is currently happening in Mercer County. Every town bordering Trenton is slowly becoming an extension of it. Orange I never hear anything about, but probably because it's the smallest and thus seems basically like an extension of East Orange.
North Orange is the best but good luck finding it.
On a more serious note, I agree with the earlier comment that traffic on 17 is worse than most other roads in the state . . . but that's just 17 (well, and 4 is close to it, too). In some places, rush hour traffic in other counties can be just as bad--or even worse if there was an accident or something, but I've been on 17 at all times of the day, all days of the week, and it ALWAYS seems bad. If you want to learn how to do the NJ "suicide merge" properly, that's the place to go, because that's the only way you can get on it.
North Orange is the best but good luck finding it.
On a more serious note, I agree with the earlier comment that traffic on 17 is worse than most other roads in the state . . . but that's just 17 (well, and 4 is close to it, too). In some places, rush hour traffic in other counties can be just as bad--or even worse if there was an accident or something, but I've been on 17 at all times of the day, all days of the week, and it ALWAYS seems bad. If you want to learn how to do the NJ "suicide merge" properly, that's the place to go, because that's the only way you can get on it.
awww. it won't let me rep you on this. but this sums it up perfectly!
having gone to school with a lot of NJ folk and not being from NJ myself, the perception established at my school was that bergen county was very snooty. It's the only place where people specify they are "from bergen county" which is kind of snooty itself. again - just the perception established from what many saw at my school.
In my world, as a New Jerseyan who was born and raised in NJ and went to the state university of NJ with a lot of other New Jerseyans from around the state, ALL New Jerseyans tend to identify with their county to give others an idea of where they are from. I know my friends in Middlesex, Monmouth, Atlantic, Hunterdon, Morris, Passaic, and Sussex counties all do this. It's not far off from mentioning "which exit" you live off - it's not a matter of boasting, it's a matter of identifying which part of NJ you're from. I don't see how that is snooty in the least bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
for misplaced structures, my guess is the towns in essex are just older. many parts of bergen were developed more recently weren't they? much easier to plan "prettier" in the past couple decades.
Nah. It's a matter of two issues - the land is very valuable so they don't want to "waste" a piece of land next to such a structure and they'd rather build a home there, and the type of people who tend to move to those areas are the type who will gladly put up with such things to get a lower price on a home they'd otherwise not be able to afford.
Most of Bergen is actually older at this point, there are more new developments in Essex than in Bergen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
as for traffic, i never have much problems. Route 10 is bad sometimes. but nothing has matched Rt 17/Rt 4. pretty much all day, every day. i've never hit it at a "good" time.
10 is horrendous, 80 is horrendous, 280 isn't so bad, 24 is horrendous, 78 is horrendous, 287 at 80 is horrendous.
I realize most of that is shared with Morris County, but to me Western Essex and Eastern Morris County are pretty much the same thing - they look the same, have the same traffic and layout issues, same type of attitudes.
The feeling I get from those people is that they are wannabe snobs; they want to be able to boast of the quality of their schools, they are more likely to drive Volvos and VW's and Audis. In Bergen, I think parents actually care about the quality of schools other than to boast of it. Also in Bergen people will skip over the volvos and audis and other faux-luxury/quality cars and they'll go with moderate cars or actual luxury cars like Mercedes or BMW.
Also, as I mentioned before, it seems that the Essex/Morris county areas are chock full of transients and transplants, whereas Bergen has a lot more established families; perhaps this is why Bergen may be perceived as more "snobby" because communities are more cohesive??? Anyway, I get the feeling that Essex/Morris are more nouveau-riches suburban yuppies (who aren't all that rich but think they are). Livingston is a perfect example. Of course, the other extreme is the urban blight and dangerous ghettos of Essex county.
I guess I just have a bad taste in my mouth from having to commute to Essex/Morris counties and dealing with the traffic. Rts 4 and 17 certainly can be bad, but they can easily be avoided, as opposed to how I've been stuck on 287 and 24 and 10 - people in Essex tend to not respect the shoulders to keep them clear for people who want to exit.
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