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No question that it was a nasty thing to do, but that isn't what I said. Making a mistake like this does not make one a bad person. Everyone has done mean-spirited things at some point in their lives; especially in their school-age years.
Absolutely. I wonder if all the moral guardians on this forum who are so quickly labelling those kids as the devil incarnate have never done anything mean or nasty in their lives. Most people, even if they are generally nice, have a mean streak in them and that comes on with some provocation. Who knows, what issues Ravi had with Tyler. Maybe he didnt appreciate having to give up his room for hours while Tyler was having "fun" inside. May be it was his stupid and immature way of trying to stop Tyler from doing so. WHo knows !!!! I would definitely resent being asked to leave my room repeatedly just because my room mate wanted to have some fun...
I just think sadly it was a prank that went bad. I'm sure the two kids will have this haunt them for the rest of their lives.
Sadly to commit suicide over this..well Tyler was either extremely sensitive or there were other issues and this just pushed him to the brink.....
Very very sad for all involved
I would definitely resent being asked to leave my room repeatedly just because my room mate wanted to have some fun...
How many times did he ask his roommate to leave? All I know is this seems like perfectly normal behavior for college kids living together. You want some privacy when you have "company".
And for all we know Ravi could have made the same exact requests of Clementi.
if my roommate wanted to get freaky with some guy i wouldnt have a problem stepping out for a bit. thats part of having roommates in a dorm. either that or you pretend to be sleeping while they get freaky in the bed nearby.
All this talk of a "hate crime" is nonsense. First off, hate crimes should not exist.
I stopped reading right here. The simple thing is if this would have been done if he was straight. That's all we need to know. I mean you obviously are a white guy who has never experienced prejudice before. Would you like to find out why such laws exist?
And what gets me is how people don't understand the seriousness of this. This can happen to anybody. We have peeping toms and such putting cameras in public bathrooms and etc. If they let this kid slide with what he did, then they're pretty much saying you can have people in your business putting it on front street for the world to see. I'm sure you would be disturbed if somebody violated your privacy by putting your ss on facebook Some of you clearly are too old to understand this being that you haven't been in school for the last 30 years. Your opinion is hard to take seriously because you're way out the loop.
Last edited by angerinthenation; 10-07-2010 at 09:38 AM..
I have a feeling if some of the people who don't think this is a big were secretly recorded (or their kids were recorded) having sex and that was then broadcast they would have a different take on things.
I stopped reading right here. The simple thing is if this would have been done if he was straight. That's all we need to know. I mean you obviously are a white guy who has never experienced prejudice before. Would you like to find out why such laws exist?
And what gets me is how people don't understand the seriousness of this. This can happen to anybody. We have peeping toms and such putting cameras in public bathrooms and etc. If they let this kid slide with what he did, then they're pretty much saying you can have people in your business putting it on front street for the world to see. I'm sure you would be disturbed if somebody violated your privacy by putting your ss on facebook Some of you clearly are too old to understand this being that you haven't been in school for the last 30 years. Your opinion is hard to take seriously because you're way out the loop.
So what is your solution? Should these two be locked up & the key thrown away??
What they did is inexcusable and wrong & serious but not to the extent they be burned at the stake....punished yes but to what degree?
And to just dimiss posters as at of the loop because they haven't been in school in 30 years is nonsense..many posters have kids or grand kids in school and are VERY aware of what goes on.
I feel for Tyler and his family that he took his own life.
I also feel bad for the family in VA who sent their daughter to Seton Hall for an education and she returned to VA in a box because of two hoodlums in EO that decided to shoot up a party...
And privacy violations are privacy violations. Race, ethnicity, religion, and sexual orientation should NOT even come into play.
On this case, yes, it was a sneaky and nasty thing to do, but I'm sure the two in question are far from bad people. The school can choose whatever punishment it likes for privacy violations and the family of the kid who committed suicide can try to get some kind of financial settlement, but these kids certainly don't deserve more than that. Certainly not jail time.
I agree with your basic sentiments.
However, Ravi & Wei violated very clearly defined invasion of privacy laws and there are penalties and fines for that.
This is an excerpt from the NJ statutes on invasion of privacy:
2C:14-9. Invasion of privacy, degree of crime; defenses, privileges
1. a. An actor commits a crime of the fourth degree if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, and under circumstances in which a reasonable person would know that another may expose intimate parts or may engage in sexual penetration or sexual contact, he observes another person without that person's consent and under circumstances in which a reasonable person would not expect to be observed.
b. An actor commits a crime of the third degree if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he photographs, films, videotapes, records, or otherwise reproduces in any manner, the image of another person whose intimate parts are exposed or who is engaged in an act of sexual penetration or sexual contact, without that person's consent and under circumstances in which a reasonable person would not expect to be observed.
c. An actor commits a crime of the third degree if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he discloses any photograph, film, videotape, recording or any other reproduction of the image of another person whose intimate parts are exposed or who is engaged in an act of sexual penetration or sexual contact, unless that person has consented to such disclosure. For purposes of this subsection, "disclose" means sell, manufacture, give, provide, lend, trade, mail, deliver, transfer, publish, distribute, circulate, disseminate, present, exhibit, advertise or offer. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection b. of N.J.S.2C:43-3, a fine not to exceed $30,000 may be imposed for a violation of this subsection.
Ravi is guilty of all of the above. These are third and fourth degree crimes.
Wei, with the evidence currently available, would only be guilty of the 1.a under 2C: 14-9, and actually that still remains to be proven. If she merely allowed Ravi into her room and let him use her laptop and then walked away to talk to someone else in the room, etc. etc, she would be innocent.
However, if Wei, and ANYBODY ELSE in that dorm room, did observe what was happening on her laptop, they should ALL be charged with violating 1.a. I don't see the logic in only charging Wei because it was her laptop. The statute clearly states that all you have to do is secretly OBSERVE a private sex act. So, furthermore, EVERYBODY who was informed of the livestream and watched it should be charged with violating 1.a.
In NJ, third degree crimes are punishable by 1-5 years in prison (and up to a $30,000 fine for this particular offense). Fourth degree crimes are punishable by up to 18 months in prison.
Ravi and Wei, and EVERY single person who watched the livestream, should be charged accordingly and tried in court. Their punishment should not be any the greater because Clementi killed himself, and I would hope that the jury would not let that factor into their deliberations because it is irrelevant. If the jury is composed of people such as many of those posting in this thread...these people are screwed.
As far as manslaughter charges are concerned, that is completely ludicrous and the lynch mob needs to put down their torches and pitch forks for a second and come down from the cloud of hysteria. To compare this case with the other anti-gay bullying suicide cases making the media rounds is (1) total propaganda and (2) dimishing from the severity and nature of those other cases. Those all involved months of daily torment including gay slurs, physical bullying, and repeated attempts to get school authorities to mitigate the problem to no avail.
Tyler Clementi felt so "bullied" by Ravi that his forum posts the day before he jumped off the GWB refer to him as a "decent" roommate otherwise. And, he felt so "bullied" by Ravi and so "humilated" that he asked Ravi a second time to have the room to himself?
For virtually any suicide you can find another person to "blame". Are we going to start charging people for murder every time there's a suicide? My cousin committed suicide when she was in college. It was right after her boyfriend broke up with her. He had been her first sexual partner and she was infatutated with him. According to their social circle, it was a "pump and dump". Should the boyfriend have been brought up on manslaughter charges for my cousin's suicide?
When I was a freshman at Rutgers myself, a kid in my dorm attempted to commit suicide because his parents disapproved of his new girlfriend based on religious reasons and also were hounding ("bullying") him to pursue a major he did not want to pursue. If he had succeeded in killing himself, should we have brought his parents up on manslaughter charges?
And what about that elderly man down the street? He grows lonelier and more depressed with each passing day because his kids and grandkids are too busy even to return his repeated phone calls to chat. He decides there is no point to life anymore and kills himself. Should we charge his entire family with manslaughter?
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As far as manslaughter charges are concerned, that is completely ludicrous and the lynch mob needs to put down their torches and pitch forks for a second and come down from the cloud of hysteria. To compare this case with the other anti-gay bullying suicide cases making the media rounds is (1) total propaganda and (2) dimishing from the severity and nature of those other cases. Those all involved months of daily torment including gay slurs, physical bullying, and repeated attempts to get school authorities to mitigate the problem to no avail.
Tyler Clementi felt so "bullied" by Ravi that his forum posts the day before he jumped off the GWB refer to him as a "decent" roommate otherwise. And, he felt so "bullied" by Ravi and so "humilated" that he asked Ravi a second time to have the room to himself?
For virtually any suicide you can find another person to "blame". Are we going to start charging people for murder every time there's a suicide? My cousin committed suicide when she was in college. It was right after her boyfriend broke up with her. He had been her first sexual partner and she was infatutated with him. According to their social circle, it was a "pump and dump". Should the boyfriend have been brought up on manslaughter charges for my cousin's suicide?
When I was a freshman at Rutgers myself, a kid in my dorm attempted to commit suicide because his parents disapproved of his new girlfriend based on religious reasons and also were hounding ("bullying") him to pursue a major he did not want to pursue. If he had succeeded in killing himself, should we have brought his parents up on manslaughter charges?
And what about that elderly man down the street? He grows lonelier and more depressed with each passing day because his kids and grandkids are too busy even to return his repeated phone calls to chat. He decides there is no point to life anymore and kills himself. Should we charge his entire family with manslaughter?
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
I couldn't have put it better. Agree with every word above.
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