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Why don't we just give people one of those rechargeable radio/lantern things for emergencies? Why do they need cable? The electricity is going to go out anyway in a real emergency.
Good for you. I went to public schools and then a private school for college. So what.
I have no problem with the idea that my parents had children and paid for them through their taxes, as required. I do have a problem with those who are childless having to pay for the choice that the rest of the population made to have children. I think that the childless should get to opt out of paying for your child's education. I see no problem with a user based fee, calculated on the number of children you have, and your ability to pay.
We know exactly how much each child's education cost based on what their school system cost to operate annually, and we know exactly who the parents are, and where they live.
It would not be too hard to set up a fee based system and since it would cover almost the entire population of property owners anyway (and maybe could add renters for the first time) it would be a more equitable system then we have now. For seniors on a fixed income, it could keep them in their homes longer. For single childless people, it could help them, if they are just starting out, establish themselves in society faster.
When I lived in NH there was a big debate about adding Kindergarten to the public schools (early 1980's). It wasn't about the benefits we'd all get from the little ones learning to draw and play group games (Oh please.), it was about the possibility of FREE DAYCARE for all the parents of young children! That's what we're really talking about here too, it's all about the money.
so someone who didn't have children helped subsidize your education that helped you get to where you are now. now that you've enjoyed using other people's tax dollars, you're against it.
maybe not "you" truly....but you get the point.
bottom line is, our nation is where it is today in large part because of our decision to educate our population. it's a public good.
so someone who didn't have children helped subsidize your education that helped you get to where you are now. now that you've enjoyed using other people's tax dollars, you're against it.
maybe not "you" truly....but you get the point.
bottom line is, our nation is where it is today in large part because of our decision to educate our population. it's a public good.
thats not really fair that you make the assumption that because that is how it has been, that we would have otherwise failed and that is how it must be.
education is a product that anyone can choose to individually pay for or not.
havent we all been to school? sometimes it amazes me that people think there are "good" teachers. when i went to school, the teachers ran through the curriculum and we took the tests. there was nothing special about what any of them did. im sure the school had good numbers because it had a good student population. the educational system isnt the problem, its the population. but people want to ignore that because that can be offensive to people when you criticize how they are raising kids or whether or not they should have kids. you should punish people who have kids without an appropriate structure to raise them well, then sterilize them (or just let them fail and dont obligate the rest of the citizens to pay for other peoples bad choices).
Last edited by CaptainNJ; 02-12-2011 at 07:26 AM..
Good for you. I went to public schools and then a private school for college. So what.
I have no problem with the idea that my parents had children and paid for them through their taxes, as required. I do have a problem with those who are childless having to pay for the choice that the rest of the population made to have children. I think that the childless should get to opt out of paying for your child's education. I see no problem with a user based fee, calculated on the number of children you have, and your ability to pay.
We know exactly how much each child's education cost based on what their school system cost to operate annually, and we know exactly who the parents are, and where they live.
It would not be too hard to set up a fee based system and since it would cover almost the entire population of property owners anyway (and maybe could add renters for the first time) it would be a more equitable system then we have now. For seniors on a fixed income, it could keep them in their homes longer. For single childless people, it could help them, if they are just starting out, establish themselves in society faster.
When I lived in NH there was a big debate about adding Kindergarten to the public schools (early 1980's). It wasn't about the benefits we'd all get from the little ones learning to draw and play group games (Oh please.), it was about the possibility of FREE DAYCARE for all the parents of young children! That's what we're really talking about here too, it's all about the money.
I think a user fee would be fine too, factoring in ability to pay. There are plenty of people WITH children who love to opt out of the system too, believe me.
so someone who didn't have children helped subsidize your education that helped you get to where you are now. now that you've enjoyed using other people's tax dollars, you're against it.
maybe not "you" truly....but you get the point.
bottom line is, our nation is where it is today in large part because of our decision to educate our population. it's a public good.
I'm sure you get the point that as a child I didn't have a say where the money for education came from, and my parents, like all the others in town, took advantage of the system as it existed then. They did pay the share of school taxes that was expected of them, and in their entire work lives likely paid for my education a few times.
To say that I can't criticize the current system because I benefited from it, would mean that no progress would ever be possible on anything. Not a very good basis to start from.
If parents had to make direct fee payments to pay for education maybe they'd be more involved. Parent involvements is what really makes a good school. If you look at the stats on how many American children drop out of school before High School graduation you wouldn't think the current system is so great.
I'm sure you get the point that as a child I didn't have a say where the money for education came from, and my parents, like all the others in town, took advantage of the system as it existed then. They did pay the share of school taxes that was expected of them, and in their entire work lives likely paid for my education a few times.
To say that I can't criticize the current system because I benefited from it, would mean that no progress would ever be possible on anything. Not a very good basis to start from.
If parents had to make direct fee payments to pay for education maybe they'd be more involved. Parent involvements is what really makes a good school. If you look at the stats on how many American children drop out of school before High School graduation you wouldn't think the current system is so great.
i'm not saying you can't criticize, but there's a societal benefit to educating the population. that's why it's been agreed upon to have it spread across everyone in a given town, because the theory is everyone benefits. it helps create educated population of people to supply into the workforce, keeping our economy running.
sure things are wrong with the system, but privitizing it isn't the smoking gun. it would become unaffordable for some, and they would simply be left in the dust because their parents can't afford it.
[quote=CaptainNJ;17836492]thats not really fair that you make the assumption that because that is how it has been, that we would have otherwise failed and that is how it must be.QUOTE]
is there an examply of a society that has done it differently and achieved similar results?
i think it's a pretty good assumption based on historical data that educating the population helps drive and advance the economy. look at how other countries are currently catching up to us and/or passing us...
is there an examply of a society that has done it differently and achieved similar results?
i think it's a pretty good assumption based on historical data that educating the population helps drive and advance the economy. look at how other countries are currently catching up to us and/or passing us...
i think you are making assumptions that you dont at all know to be true.
i think you are making assumptions that you dont at all know to be true.
Can anyone name a single first or even second world country that doesn't operate a public education system? I would venture that most go far beyond what we offer and include university level education as well.
I don't think anyone is arguing reform is necessary, the problem with the argument you guys are presenting is that it seems like if the system functioned perfectly you would be fine with it. However, since it doesn't the best thing to do is let people opt out of paying into it.
The one piece I found interesting was Beaconowners idea of having parents pay something extra into the system for their kids. I think that is an interesting idea on how to force at least some parents to become more involved and/or unburden the system with kids who aren't interested as their parents will simply choose to stop paying.
Can anyone name a single first or even second world country that doesn't operate a public education system? I would venture that most go far beyond what we offer and include university level education as well.
putting it that way, perhaps the public school system isnt so important since they have it in countries with strong economies and weak economies. would it hurt us if we transitioned more to private education? i dont think its that critical either way (education isnt very difficult), but they arent doing enough to keep costs down.
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Let's be fair...
