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Old 02-21-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,421,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
exactly, nobody cares about your bank manager. but like brady just demonstrated, people will irrationally stand up for teachers and their right to squeeze every penny from working taxpayers. brady, you mentioned comparing teacher's compensation here in america vs other places. if you have a link for that i would be interested in checking out those comparisons.
i demonstrated that people will irrationally stand against teachers. it happens on both sides.

here's a good article based on what i was saying.

Why aren't our teachers the best and the brightest?
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,772,644 times
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Originally Posted by bababua View Post
Siir or Madame with all due respect you are getting off topic. NJ teacher have tenure as do Wisconsin teachers. While we can agree to disagree on many things what strikes me odd is that we here in NJ bash teachers because they are "raping" the system. Again look at the numbers between the two states and the fact remains NJ teachers are getting hosed relatively speaking. You can purchase a great great house in Wisconsin for 200k, please let me know where that same house can be had in NJ? Not sure what your ramblings of the Art teacher who makes 54k in Newark are about? Whats wrong with that? Just because its not math or english doesnt mean its not a valuable subject. Your 64k is secondary teachers I am talking about teachers as a whole and not just picking the numbers that skew the numbers upward like you.
I do agree that horrible teachers should be removed but lets not act as if teachers are the end all be all. Teachers in Neward may be viewed as horrible but how many of them teach as well as possible only to be crushed my system and societal problems that they just cant control?

We have got to stop with the excuses. The US spend the most per capita on education globally second to Switzerland yet we are 37 the in achievement. Paying teacher more won't improve things dismantling th union system is a start.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:31 PM
 
1,931 posts, read 3,416,512 times
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Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
We have got to stop with the excuses. The US spend the most per capita on education globally second to Switzerland yet we are 37 the in achievement. Paying teacher more won't improve things dismantling th union system is a start.
When other countries start testing everyone send me an email. In Finland only the select few to go schools the other learn a trade and are not counted in scores. I am sure China is giving everyone a fair chance also. Apples and oranges.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:32 PM
 
1,931 posts, read 3,416,512 times
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Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
We have got to stop with the excuses. The US spend the most per capita on education globally second to Switzerland yet we are 37 the in achievement. Paying teacher more won't improve things dismantling th union system is a start.
As a point of reference suburban NJ kids rank equal to those kids in Finland who by the way are #1 in the world. The reason is not good teaching by the way its good parents who in turn allow teachers to teach. Lets not act as if teachers are the end all be all.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:34 PM
 
1,931 posts, read 3,416,512 times
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Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
We have got to stop with the excuses. The US spend the most per capita on education globally second to Switzerland yet we are 37 the in achievement. Paying teacher more won't improve things dismantling th union system is a start.
As long as we have the huge problem of poverty scores will not get any better. Parental and societal apathy run rampant in cities and education is not something that is valued. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. Good parents and maybe just maybe a little bit of the family structure coming back would work wonders for test scores.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:32 PM
 
1,471 posts, read 3,466,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
True at least we are both American and thats the most important thing of all. Anyone know what this guy in Wisconsin wants to take away collective bargaining for teacher and not cops and firefighters. I wish these guys would stay consistent.

For the same reason our governor isn't going after cops and firefighters with the same gusto as teachers. Teachers are the easiest target. Cops and firefighters would most likely be far more aggressive and get far more physical if serious cuts were proposed to their ranks.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:53 PM
 
1,931 posts, read 3,416,512 times
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Originally Posted by zhelder View Post
For the same reason our governor isn't going after cops and firefighters with the same gusto as teachers. Teachers are the easiest target. Cops and firefighters would most likely be far more aggressive and get far more physical if serious cuts were proposed to their ranks.
Well then so much for being fair across the board.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:23 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,749,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
Well then so much for being fair across the board.
im sure the reason is purely political. you go after them in pieces to make it more manageable. while it may not be "fair," that kind of thing doesnt really bother the unions when they are the ones who dont play fair.

look at what the wisconsin democrats did. they knew they would lose the vote, so they didnt show up so there wouldnt be a quorum. while many people vilify what they did, i have no problem with it. seems like a mistake that this is allowed to go unpunished, but if it is then its a victory for them. the point is, thats not really playing "fair" but that doesnt seem to matter to many people. the people it matters the least to are unions/union members. i believe it was idaho recently where they posted home addresses of the opposition members. if you have dealt with unions you probably realize that they dont really follow the rules and if you break any rules (even if you dont break any rules) they will be crying foul and filing NLRB complaints all day long.

Last edited by CaptainNJ; 02-21-2011 at 06:33 PM..
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Somerset, NJ
505 posts, read 2,337,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhelder View Post
For the same reason our governor isn't going after cops and firefighters with the same gusto as teachers. Teachers are the easiest target. Cops and firefighters would most likely be far more aggressive and get far more physical if serious cuts were proposed to their ranks.
I'm pretty positive that the governor isn't "going after the teachers"....he's said it multiple times that he's going after the NJEA, which is entirely different. There are many teachers who don't agree with the NJEA but have no choice other than to go along with them.

My guess is that the reason he is not going after cops and firefighters is that their piece of the pie is a whole lot smaller than that of the public school systems in NJ. Generally speaking your school taxes make up 2/3 - 3/4 of your property taxes, which is why it is the first place to look.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,772,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
As long as we have the huge problem of poverty scores will not get any better. Parental and societal apathy run rampant in cities and education is not something that is valued. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. Good parents and maybe just maybe a little bit of the family structure coming back would work wondersNJ equals Finland ob standardized tests. for test scores.
More excuses, the US has no more poverty than the 36 countries ahead of us. You can pull number out of thin air but there is no way its true. Let's give those inner city kid th same chances Obama's kids have. Oh , that's right the union will not allow choice.

By the way, if your NJ/Finland comparison held water your poverty comment wouldn't.The left can't keep track of their deflections.
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