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Old 02-22-2011, 10:07 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,668,651 times
Reputation: 14622

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann77 View Post
No, it's not up to individual union members to do this. No one person should have to go up against their union shop boss. That would just be unwise.

Legislatures passed the laws that created this situation, and legislatures can pass laws changing these situations. So we elect people to do what we want them to do. This is no surprise, therefore, what Walker is doing.
You are very correct that it can't be up to the individual members, to easy to be singled out and to great a possibility for backlash.

My mom is a public school employee and has worked at the same school for the past 25 years. She is a secretary and falls under the "support staff" moniker. She is also a member of the NJEA and pays dues. At one point she decided that she felt the union didn't properly represent her and other "support staff" and decided to renounce her membership. She spent the next 2 years being hounded to rejoin the union by her local union heads and then was pressured by several of her friends who also work in the same school system. It started out as general cajolling, but became more forceful as time went on and the contract negotiation approached. She eventually relented when the local agreed to better represent "support staff". Of course, the better support never materialized and she just sort of gave up with it deciding that it was better to be a member than have the "black mark" taint her relationships with her coworkers.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,395,557 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann77 View Post
No, it's not up to individual union members to do this. No one person should have to go up against their union shop boss. That would just be unwise.

Legislatures passed the laws that created this situation, and legislatures can pass laws changing these situations. So we elect people to do what we want them to do. This is no surprise, therefore, what Walker is doing.
a union is an organization with leaders. if the members disagree with the leaders of their union, why can't they voice that? if they don't voice it, then they are participating in it, even if only by silence. i have friends like this too. very anti-union, but looking to become a police officer or a teacher or etc....they hate all unions except the ones that are in their profession. i guess it's just a coincidence. if you don't like what the union in your profession is doing, then speak up. if you don't, then you're part of the problem too in my opinion.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:10 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,672,588 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
a union is an organization with leaders. if the members disagree with the leaders of their union, why can't they voice that? if they don't voice it, then they are participating in it, even if only by silence. i have friends like this too. very anti-union, but looking to become a police officer or a teacher or etc....they hate all unions except the ones that are in their profession. i guess it's just a coincidence. if you don't like what the union in your profession is doing, then speak up. if you don't, then you're part of the problem too in my opinion.
once you have the union in place, its very difficult to challenge them. they know how to maintain control.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,395,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
once you have the union in place, its very difficult to challenge them. they know how to maintain control.
this is true, but sitting there and saying "i can't" is different to me than saying "i won't". if you won't, you're part of the problem in the problem unions. it's easy to convince oneself you can't change things, especially when you benefit from the current system and from staying quiet about the things you supposedly disagree with.

i would think we'd be on the same page on this one.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:23 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,672,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
this is true, but sitting there and saying "i can't" is different to me than saying "i won't". if you won't, you're part of the problem in the problem unions. it's easy to convince oneself you can't change things, especially when you benefit from the current system and from staying quiet about the things you supposedly disagree with.

i would think we'd be on the same page on this one.
yes and no. i would love for the younger teachers to stand up against the unions and the older entrenched teachers. but i also understand how difficult it is and how its easier to sit around and be quiet and hope for the best. its very risky for yourself (and you may have a family to worry about) and very hard to succeed.

ultimately, its taking our current economic situation to force changes and whether anyone likes it or not there are going to be big changes. the money just isnt there to maintain the current system anymore.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:32 AM
 
612 posts, read 1,010,702 times
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easier said than done. I myself, and my coworkers are already faced with the prospect of losing our jobs at the end of this year from budget cuts. Speaking your mind is one sure way to ensure that we are the ones canned.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:37 AM
 
1,527 posts, read 4,062,829 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
a union is an organization with leaders. if the members disagree with the leaders of their union, why can't they voice that? if they don't voice it, then they are participating in it, even if only by silence. i have friends like this too. very anti-union, but looking to become a police officer or a teacher or etc....they hate all unions except the ones that are in their profession. i guess it's just a coincidence. if you don't like what the union in your profession is doing, then speak up. if you don't, then you're part of the problem too in my opinion.
Because they would have to still pay 85% of the dues by law, even if they decide not to join the union. By law. That's the problem. The laws have to be changed. They should have a right to opt out, but as of right now in NJ they can't, or rather they can, but they still have to pay 85% of the dues. That's a bad deal.

I agree they can still do what they want as far as general voting, etc. but I don't find irrational for a worker to go along with the union in their day-to-day life. The local union can make your life hell if you don't go along with them or if you dare to speak up. Or all of a sudden you've got the cruddiest assignment in the whole district. That kind of thing.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:40 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,672,588 times
Reputation: 24590
unions rig votes, intimidate workers, put on a fake show of agreement when its really their plan being pushed. they know they have to protect themselves and they know they are above the law in many instances. also, a lot of union people seem to think they are "morally right" and that seems to give them the right to break the rules where they wouldnt let anyone else break the rules.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,395,557 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
yes and no. i would love for the younger teachers to stand up against the unions and the older entrenched teachers. but i also understand how difficult it is and how its easier to sit around and be quiet and hope for the best. its very risky for yourself (and you may have a family to worry about) and very hard to succeed.

ultimately, its taking our current economic situation to force changes and whether anyone likes it or not there are going to be big changes. the money just isnt there to maintain the current system anymore.
i no it's difficult, but then to me, just admit that you aren't really all that anti-union, because you're participating in it, whether you want to admit it or not.

go teach for a private school. lots of options if you're a good teacher. don't participate in the problem, be part of the solution.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:46 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,395,557 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoakman View Post
easier said than done. I myself, and my coworkers are already faced with the prospect of losing our jobs at the end of this year from budget cuts. Speaking your mind is one sure way to ensure that we are the ones canned.
so you don't speak out against it because you want to keep your job? and they help keep your job by protecting you, as long as you don't speak out against them? start interviewing at private schools. sorry, i respect your thoughts and ideas, and i think you're right. but if you truly disagree with it, then stop participating in it.
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