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Old 02-19-2011, 03:34 PM
 
6,902 posts, read 7,542,907 times
Reputation: 2018

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What many are failing to realize and one would have to blame the rhetoric coming from both sides. Teachers salaries DO NOT START AT $50K OR $60K. That is a myth perpetuated by Christie and his supporters. Those teachers that are at the top end of the pay spectrum are tenured teachers who have worked in the public school system for 15+ years.

Also there are numerous myths concerning the contributions to both medical and pension plans. Teachers do contribute to both, now should they contribute more? Definitely, but this continuous false information communicated on a National Level is tiresome. I know I know, NJ is broke, the system needs to be changed, but do it truthfully, stop misleading everyone to garner support.

Can anyone name 3 districts where;

1. Teachers starting salaries are more than $40K
2. Teachers who have not reached tenure who make more than $50K
3. Districts that do not pay into the pension plan
4. Districts that do not contribute to healthcare


The Biggest issue with NJ is not only the Unions, but the fact that there are too many damn school districts and too many contracts. The Legislatures, Local Government and Christie need to suck it up, man up and tackle the Biggest Issue.
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,730,578 times
Reputation: 24590
im trying to find some info on available teaching positions or maybe some info on how hard it is to get a teaching job. id rather focus on how easy it is to hire than how hard the job is. you know what happens if i offer a certain pay rate and get tons of qualified applicants wanting the job? ill lower that rate.
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:37 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
858 posts, read 2,994,546 times
Reputation: 708
From the news, it appears WI's fiscal mess is as bad as NJ, or worse. Teaching, no matter where is a great profession, and I thank the teachers I've had over my lifetime, as they gave me the education necessary to raise my family.

However, teaching is a job, and just like any other job the pay and benefits need to be in line with with the employer or taxpayers can afford.

This is not meant as a dig: I'm sure most of us would like to have summers off, and the extra long holidays like spring and Christmas, etc., but most jobs are based on a 52 week, 2088 hours work year. Teachers and their unions expect a 52 week salary for their shortened work year.

The public sector to include teacher pensions and benefits are unsustainable at the current levels, and that in evidenced in numerous states with fical issues.

The legacy defined pensions need to be changed over to 401K's, as the taxpayers can no longer afford the current defined pension plan. Most employees get back what they've contributed during the 1st 3 years of retirement; after that it's on the taxpayers. Yes, the state should have properly invested it, and if they had there would have been more dollars to fund it. But our politicans did took from the plan to fund other things, both good and not so good, and now we have to live with what we have. However, the reality is most of us have a 401K, and that's because most businesses could no longer afford defined pension plans either, so what makes us think that the government can continue to do so?

Public employees need to pay a fair share of their health benefits. I think most of us would love $10 co-pays for doctors and prescriptions, and free health benefits throughout our retirement, but in reality, most of us have much higher co-pays and deductibles, and continue to pay our fair share until we keel over. I also think most of us pay a lot more than 1-1/2% of our salary towards our benefits.

I saw a video a while back where public employees complained about payingy 1/3 of the cost for a $20K plus health benefit plan. I agree that paying ~ $8K would be hard. But they don't have to; NJ just needs to more offer plans with higher co-pays and deductibles like most of us have, and the cost of the plan will drop significantly. And if you want to keep a plan with $10 co-pays, it's going to cost you, and will increase significantly every year.

While I believe in unions in general. I'm not sure if public employees should have collective barganing, as that's what's lead to the fiscal issues we currently face. Most federal employees have unions, but do not have collective barganing; the job has specific duties, pays a specific range, has specific benefits, and it's that simple.

So I think a lot of the negative talk here towards teachers and other public employees is simply because the rest of the public is paying for the fantastic benefits public employees receive through ever increasing property taxes which many can no longer afford.

Most public employees to include teachers do a great job which I appreciate, and I'm sure most others also appreciate, but the general public just wants to be able to afford the taxes, no matter if it's WI, NJ, CA, or wherever.

Last edited by marc515; 02-19-2011 at 04:12 PM..
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:10 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
15,318 posts, read 17,235,718 times
Reputation: 6959
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud View Post
What many are failing to realize and one would have to blame the rhetoric coming from both sides. Teachers salaries DO NOT START AT $50K OR $60K. That is a myth perpetuated by Christie and his supporters. Those teachers that are at the top end of the pay spectrum are tenured teachers who have worked in the public school system for 15+ years.

Also there are numerous myths concerning the contributions to both medical and pension plans. Teachers do contribute to both, now should they contribute more? Definitely, but this continuous false information communicated on a National Level is tiresome. I know I know, NJ is broke, the system needs to be changed, but do it truthfully, stop misleading everyone to garner support.

Can anyone name 3 districts where;

1. Teachers starting salaries are more than $40K
2. Teachers who have not reached tenure who make more than $50K
3. Districts that do not pay into the pension plan
4. Districts that do not contribute to healthcare


The Biggest issue with NJ is not only the Unions, but the fact that there are too many damn school districts and too many contracts. The Legislatures, Local Government and Christie need to suck it up, man up and tackle the Biggest Issue.
Who has suggested that their starting salaries were $50-$60K? I haven't heard that. The salaries really aren't an issue. It's the unaffordable health and benefits, tenure, and a couple other things that are the issue.

Average starting salary in my town's schools is $46K. Looking at a couple other school districts, average starting salary with a Bachelor's is between $45-$50K which is fair since starting salaries in many fields are in that neighborhood.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:04 AM
 
1,931 posts, read 3,415,671 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann77 View Post
Most of them wouldn't last a day in the private sector. These people go straight from HS, to college, to a school system. They live in la-la land.

I actually think many of them suffer from arrested development.

Who the hell died and made you queen for a day? How do you know what people would do? How do you know what people can and cant do. I havent seen anyone on here lable anyone more then you. I wish I could see what you look like? Dare I say Jenny Craig?
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:07 AM
 
1,931 posts, read 3,415,671 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
im trying to find some info on available teaching positions or maybe some info on how hard it is to get a teaching job. id rather focus on how easy it is to hire than how hard the job is. you know what happens if i offer a certain pay rate and get tons of qualified applicants wanting the job? ill lower that rate.

Lets see its a rough economy right now. By your logic every single worker in this country would make $2 and hour because people need work and will do anything for a buck. Lets see if your argument holds any water? How people who are out of work and qualified would like to be manager of say BOA? I would say a bunch ok then so then lets lower the current managers salary because tons of people want and can do that job? Great logic and the you win the award for the fasted time iin the race to the bottom.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:55 AM
 
1,527 posts, read 4,065,850 times
Reputation: 444
You're right, I am wrong.

Teachers would be millionaires in the private sector, but they are so selfless they choose to teach our children every day. Heroes really.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:17 AM
 
71 posts, read 227,187 times
Reputation: 53
well... I like the logic of OP - if A does X, and B does Y, and X>Y then B automatically is all good and merit... and nobody is no longer concerned that all started in what they both do, since the scape goat is found by numbers... lol
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:29 AM
 
1,527 posts, read 4,065,850 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
Who the hell died and made you queen for a day? How do you know what people would do? How do you know what people can and cant do. I havent seen anyone on here lable anyone more then you. I wish I could see what you look like? Dare I say Jenny Craig?
Is this what Democrats do now, call people FAT when they don't like what they have to say? LOL
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:50 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,730,578 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
Lets see its a rough economy right now. By your logic every single worker in this country would make $2 and hour because people need work and will do anything for a buck. Lets see if your argument holds any water? How people who are out of work and qualified would like to be manager of say BOA? I would say a bunch ok then so then lets lower the current managers salary because tons of people want and can do that job? Great logic and the you win the award for the fasted time iin the race to the bottom.
this is what the private sector has to do in order to survive. we have to make cuts and we have to be efficient. but the public sector just takes and takes from the working americans and they couldnt care less about how everyone else suffers to support this privileged class.
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