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This is exactly what I was talking about with the house that the family built on Long Beach Island because her kids went to Rutgers on a Stars type of program (they didn't do community college first, but went straight to Rutgers). They have the HUGE house, etc, etc in their home town, and now have a second "vacation" house.
And have you every seen the cars at the community colleges today? I have because I've taken adult business courses during the day at times. The cars are 100 million times better than my kids cars who go to school out of state...because that's what we choose. Out of state. But they are driving beat up old cars because we are paying every single penny for their education, and trust me, they could have more than qualified for Stars, but chose not to. So my point is that I don't mind paying perhaps for the inner city kid from the broken home, but I don't want to pay for the family that sits on the beach in their vacation home that the taxpayers helped pay for.
And yes, I know that a house on LBI costs alot more than $200K. but still, to think that I paid for a tile in their bathroom or kitchen floor annoys the heck out of me.
i'm sure there are things in your life that other taxpayers paid for. for instance: if you have 2 kids, with a cost of $12K per kid per year to educate them publicly, you can thank the taxpayers of NJ for their education. unless of course, you paid over $24K a year in school taxes. in which case, I apologize. LOL
This is exactly what I was talking about with the house that the family built on Long Beach Island because her kids went to Rutgers on a Stars type of program (they didn't do community college first, but went straight to Rutgers). They have the HUGE house, etc, etc in their home town, and now have a second "vacation" house.
And have you every seen the cars at the community colleges today? I have because I've taken adult business courses during the day at times. The cars are 100 million times better than my kids cars who go to school out of state...because that's what we choose. Out of state. But they are driving beat up old cars because we are paying every single penny for their education, and trust me, they could have more than qualified for Stars, but chose not to. So my point is that I don't mind paying perhaps for the inner city kid from the broken home, but I don't want to pay for the family that sits on the beach in their vacation home that the taxpayers helped pay for.
And yes, I know that a house on LBI costs alot more than $200K. but still, to think that I paid for a tile in their bathroom or kitchen floor annoys the heck out of me.
Why do you think you are paying every penny for their education? Not every single student at CC is there for free. Most are paying the tuition.
I have not seen the cars at CC, but how do you know they aren't working adults who are going to school part-time? And why is it your business what car they are driving anyway? I don't believe you that every car in the lot at CC is a fancy car either. Maybe I will have to take a drive by to check this out.
Maybe you're the silly one paying through the nose to send your kids out-of-state!
i'm sure there are things in your life that other taxpayers paid for. for instance: if you have 2 kids, with a cost of $12K per kid per year to educate them publicly, you can thank the taxpayers of NJ for their education. unless of course, you paid over $24K a year in school taxes. in which case, I apologize. LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann77
Why do you think you are paying every penny for their education? Not every single student at CC is there for free. Most are paying the tuition.
I have not seen the cars at CC, but how do you know they aren't working adults who are going to school part-time? And why is it your business what car they are driving anyway? I don't believe you that every car in the lot at CC is a fancy car either. Maybe I will have to take a drive by to check this out.
Maybe you're the silly one paying through the nose to send your kids out-of-state!
No offense, but both of you seem to be ignoring the root of the issue that was brought up in the thread regarding the STARS program....
IT BASES FINANCIAL "NEED" AS FAMILIES MAKING $250k PER YEAR OR LESS
You defended it from every angle about how it helps disadvantaged kids, but it isn't doing that. Please don't ignore the fact that this program is ridiculously broken. Read anything on it and people will point out the massive flaws.
tahiti, you said, well taxpayers pay for things in your life. Isn't that complacency at it's finest? Are you OK with a family making $250k a year getting to send their kids to college for free on your dime?
Ann77, I'm sure not every kid at county is going for free, but that doesn't mean that this program isn't benefitting people who don't need the help. I personally know of a couple kids from rather affluent families in Moorestown and Hainesport who sent their kids to Burlington County College on the STARS program and "rewarded" them with brand new cars since they didn't need to pay for college. You're cool with that? You're fine with the kid from Moorestown who lives in a $650k house getting a brand new BMW for graduation since our tax dollars graciously relieved his parents from the burden of sending him to college?
No offense, but both of you seem to be ignoring the root of the issue that was brought up in the thread regarding the STARS program....
IT BASES FINANCIAL "NEED" AS FAMILIES MAKING $250k PER YEAR OR LESS
You defended it from every angle about how it helps disadvantaged kids, but it isn't doing that. Please don't ignore the fact that this program is ridiculously broken. Read anything on it and people will point out the massive flaws.
tahiti, you said, well taxpayers pay for things in your life. Isn't that complacency at it's finest? Are you OK with a family making $250k a year getting to send their kids to college for free on your dime?
Ann77, I'm sure not every kid at county is going for free, but that doesn't mean that this program isn't benefitting people who don't need the help. I personally know of a couple kids from rather affluent families in Moorestown and Hainesport who sent their kids to Burlington County College on the STARS program and "rewarded" them with brand new cars since they didn't need to pay for college. You're cool with that? You're fine with the kid from Moorestown who lives in a $650k house getting a brand new BMW for graduation since our tax dollars graciously relieved his parents from the burden of sending him to college?
i'm not ignorant, but thanks anyway for the compliment. so i guess you're saying families that make over $250K a year should also pay the full brunt of sending their 2-3-4 kids to public school as well? I realize it's a different discussion, but isn't the STARS program similar to our "socialist" public system?
my goddamn point which YOU seemed to miss was that you can nitpick every %*($& thing your taxes fund yet fail to realize that you are probably taking advantage of something someone else thinks is a total waste of money. "me me me" thinking at its finest.
and FTR - I've never stated publicly my opinion on the $250K a year threshold.
Ann77, I'm sure not every kid at county is going for free, but that doesn't mean that this program isn't benefitting people who don't need the help. I personally know of a couple kids from rather affluent families in Moorestown and Hainesport who sent their kids to Burlington County College on the STARS program and "rewarded" them with brand new cars since they didn't need to pay for college. You're cool with that? You're fine with the kid from Moorestown who lives in a $650k house getting a brand new BMW for graduation since our tax dollars graciously relieved his parents from the burden of sending him to college?
I have to say I don't care on this one. The threshold may be too high though, you have a point there. Not sure why it's 250.
I just take with ridiculous statements that someone personally paid for someone's bathroom tile job on their LBI home because of this.
i'm not ignorant, but thanks anyway for the compliment. so i guess you're saying families that make over $250K a year should also pay the full brunt of sending their 2-3-4 kids to public school as well? I realize it's a different discussion, but isn't the STARS program similar to our "socialist" public system?
my goddamn point which YOU seemed to miss was that you can nitpick every %*($& thing your taxes fund yet fail to realize that you are probably taking advantage of something someone else thinks is a total waste of money. "me me me" thinking at its finest.
and FTR - I've never stated publicly my opinion on the $250K a year threshold.
I never said YOU were ignorant. I said you were ignoring an important piece of the issue.
This program is very different from the public education system. The state constitution is implicit that all children are entitled to a primary and secondary public education. The STARS program was envisioned as a way to help disadvantaged youth go to college, but that's not what the program as constructed does.
We ALL receive benefit from collective tax dollars, there really isn't a debate on that. However, being complacent in the eye of waste in terms of those tax dollars is foolish. If anything it's a complacent electorate that allows these things to continue. We all essentially have a responsiblity to point out flaws where we perceive them and bring the debate into the public spotlight. That isn't "me me me" thinking, it's being a responsible citizen.
No, you didn't state your opinion on the threshold, but you did vigorously defend the program without understanding all the facts related to it. Once those facts were presented, you went silent and switched to a well, everyone benefits from something mentality.
In my defense we choose to send our kids to school out of state, and we paid through the nose. That was our choice. We didn't have to do it, but I am VERY glad my kids got the whole college life/college campus, dorm life, sorority, fraternity, formals, dances, etc., etc. (not to mention the headaches of having kids and their issues when they are miles and miles away...it wasn't a picnic as any parent could testify)... 'Nuff said about that.
As far as the cars at the CC? OK, I was at the CC alot last year for business purposes and I see what others are driving. Is it my right to state what I think about it, well, quite frankly, no, it's none of my business, but if you read the link about what happened in the State of Georgia with the Hope Program, and the references to BMWs, etc. then you would understand the point I am trying to make.
In my defense we choose to send our kids to school out of state, and we paid through the nose. That was our choice. We didn't have to do it, but I am VERY glad my kids got the whole college life/college campus, dorm life, sorority, fraternity, formals, dances, etc., etc. (not to mention the headaches of having kids and their issues when they are miles and miles away...it wasn't a picnic as any parent could testify)... 'Nuff said about that.
As far as the cars at the CC? OK, I was at the CC alot last year for business purposes and I see what others are driving. Is it my right to state what I think about it, well, quite frankly, no, it's none of my business, but if you read the link about what happened in the State of Georgia with the Hope Program, and the references to BMWs, etc. then you would understand the point I am trying to make.
Not everyone at a county college gets financial aid or a scholarship...when I last worked at one in 2006, I would say slightly more didn't. That's the allure of a county college for many in NJ. It allows you to pay for the first two years without breaking the bank. I pay more for my daughter's moderately piced elementary school catholic education than I would pay for two full-time semesters and a two or three summer courses as an in-county college student, based on the current prices at most NJ county colleges.
The college that I worked at was a pretty affluent section of the county. Many parents preferred letting their students explore their interests (and screw up in many cases) and take their general ed classes, the exact same ones that you would take at most 4-year public institutions in NJ, instead of paying triple the cost somewhere else. So yeah, maybe that excess money went to a car payment or 12.
No offense, but both of you seem to be ignoring the root of the issue that was brought up in the thread regarding the STARS program....
IT BASES FINANCIAL "NEED" AS FAMILIES MAKING $250k PER YEAR OR LESS
Ann77, I'm sure not every kid at county is going for free, but that doesn't mean that this program isn't benefitting people who don't need the help. I personally know of a couple kids from rather affluent families in Moorestown and Hainesport who sent their kids to Burlington County College on the STARS program and "rewarded" them with brand new cars since they didn't need to pay for college. You're cool with that? You're fine with the kid from Moorestown who lives in a $650k house getting a brand new BMW for graduation since our tax dollars graciously relieved his parents from the burden of sending him to college?
I didn't even know there was a maximum on what people could make to be in the STARS program. Sure, there's some people that probably don't need the help, but part of the reason the kids may be getting new BMW's is because even if the parents were paying the full amount of the community college/2 years of state school, that's still a lot less than if their kid had spent 4 years at a fancy private school. A lot of these kids probably wouldn't be going to community college if it wasn't for the STARS program, so I guess that was part of the goal? And many of them probably wouldn't be staying in NJ for their bachelor's either, so again, I guess they're accomplishing their goal...although yeah, in times when they're laying off all kinds of police and firemen, they could probably afford to trim a few bucks off the STARS program...
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so i guess you're saying families that make over $250K a year should also pay the full brunt of sending their 2-3-4 kids to public school as well? I realize it's a different discussion, but isn't the STARS program similar to our "socialist" public system?
