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Old 05-02-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,573 posts, read 46,126,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
But the fact that the USA has such a low tax rate compared to many other countries needs to be addressed.
But is that not offset by providing additional services like free healthcare? And by the way we have one of the highest corporate tax rates.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Little Pond Farm
559 posts, read 1,355,896 times
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When I heard the number that started with BILLIONS of unfunded liabilities I understood that even with Christie and all he wants to do, we are still screwed. There is no way we can pay down the billions we owe without increasing taxes. What scares the bijibers out of me is that I read that the Federal deficit is so bad that even if EVERY SINGLE WORKING person gave 100% of their salary to the feds for a year it would still not even touch the deficit.

He's got to go back and examine all the pension fraud in this State and stop it along with restitution if monies were collected without merit (disability pensions) He's got to get the self employed lawyers that win bids to be town attorneys out of the pension system, why are they there anyway? State workers need to pay 30% towards their health benefits, 50% of their dependent coverage. Retirement age needs to be increased and pensions paid only upon TRUE retirement, no more double or triple dipping.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:02 PM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,364,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
But is that not offset by providing additional services like free healthcare? And by the way we have one of the highest corporate tax rates.
I don't get free Healthcare. I think I'm missing your point here. Sorry.

Yes, I SEE how much corporate tax rates are hurting ... um ... GE, for instance, and Panasonic more locally.

PLEASE, are these your best arguments?
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,395,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
But is that not offset by providing additional services like free healthcare? And by the way we have one of the highest corporate tax rates.
on paper yes. but actual paid taxes vs the tax rate printed on paper is a big difference.

i'm sick of hearing "we have one of the highest corporate tax rates".
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,672,588 times
Reputation: 24590
the tea party will not allow taxes to be raised so they wont be raised. cry cry cry.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:50 PM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,364,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casper324 View Post
When I heard the number that started with BILLIONS of unfunded liabilities I understood that even with Christie and all he wants to do, we are still screwed. There is no way we can pay down the billions we owe without increasing taxes. What scares the bijibers out of me is that I read that the Federal deficit is so bad that even if EVERY SINGLE WORKING person gave 100% of their salary to the feds for a year it would still not even touch the deficit.

He's got to go back and examine all the pension fraud in this State and stop it along with restitution if monies were collected without merit (disability pensions) He's got to get the self employed lawyers that win bids to be town attorneys out of the pension system, why are they there anyway? State workers need to pay 30% towards their health benefits, 50% of their dependent coverage. Retirement age needs to be increased and pensions paid only upon TRUE retirement, no more double or triple dipping.
Yes, abuses ARE ubiquitous ... but it's not only pensioners and state workers. These are the tip of the iceberg. Look further:

Illegal immigrants, for instance, many of whom pay nothing in taxes (not all, but many), but take so much in services, and lower the value of under-skilled American workers.

Be angry, instead, at the wall street entrepreneurs who are driving our gas and oil prices through the rooves with speculation on oil futures.
- Oil & Gas Journal

Place your anger at pharmaceutical companies who charge exorbitant rates to US citizens, while their prices are half on the same meds sold overseas.

(not a neutral article, but it holds a lot of facts):
Prescription drug prices in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(and these):
Prescription Drug Importation - AMCP.org (http://www.amcp.org/amcp.ark?p=AA45A93A - broken link)
Mexico Prescription Drugs

Look at what the insurance companies and providers are doing with regard to their governance of our Healthcare costs:
Regence Blue Shield customers notified of skyrocketing rates | NWCN.com | NWCN - News
What's the Problem with Health Care Costs and What Are Others (http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=afterminal&L=4&L0=Home&L1=Insurance+%26+Re tirement&L2=Manage+Your+Health&L3=Health+Care+Tren ds&sid=Eoaf&b=terminalcontent&f=gic_healtharticles _healthcare_costs&csid=Eoaf - broken link)

Look at what wall street did to embolden unsafe practices in regard to the housing bust ... and then MADE money on the fact that they crashed the market worldwide:
The Next Housing Bust - WSJ.com
Goldman Sachs: Did Firm Make Money Betting Against Mortgage Market?

Anyone who thinks our financial problems are chiefly being driven by unions and state/federal workers is really just listening to the diversionary tactics of the people who are the REAL problems. If we, as a people, don't begin to unite and defend ourselves, we WILL become a third-world country with no middle-class ... where 98.5% of the people will be the wretched poor, with no power whatsoever.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:59 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,672,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Place your anger at pharmaceutical companies who charge exorbitant rates to US citizens, while their prices are half on the same meds sold overseas.
its interesting that this is something that is blamed on pharmaceutical companies.

its really the other countires that are basically forcing us to subsidize their health care costs. i dont like government involvement, but since we cant control other governments we need to prevent other countries from benefiting from americans paying the R&D costs of medicine. i think its very unfair to blame the pharmaceutical companies for something that they have no control over.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:00 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,668,651 times
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This isn't all too different from other threads on the topic. The healthcare deficit/liability is what, $69 billion? The total deficit/liability with pensions included is pushing something like $144 billion?

In total, the state budget is around $29 billion and are revenue is about $29 billion as well, hey we're doing a bit better than the feds, lol.

Of that our major revenue streams are these:

Income tax - $9.8 billion
Sales tax - $7.8 billion
Corporate tax - $2.1 billion

If you want the rest of the numbers, here is the link, but the rest are spread out among multiple sources: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/legisla...tlook_2012.pdf

So, what would you tax in order to make up the projected $144 bilion we will owe the pension/benefits of workers over the next 20 years. By my count, that is about $7.2 billion a year for 20 years. We could double the sales tax. We could increase income taxes by 80%. We could increase corporate taxes by 350% or so. A combination of all three? How about we double corporate taxes, increase income taxes by 50% and raise the sales tax to 10% or so, that ought to do it. Sound fair? How many of you are willing to do that to "live up to the promise we made"?

It's obvious that a three part solution needs to happen. We need to cut spending. We need the unions to make concessions on their promised benefits. Finally, I imagine that taxes will need to increase somewhat to balance it all out, or revenues need to increase.

So, what do you folks want to do? We need $7 billion a year, where do you get it from? It doesn't matter what happened in the past, who promised what and who did what. The situation is what it is.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:09 PM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,364,859 times
Reputation: 1538
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
its interesting that this is something that is blamed on pharmaceutical companies.

its really the other countires that are basically forcing us to subsidize their health care costs. i dont like government involvement, but since we cant control other governments we need to prevent other countries from benefiting from americans paying the R&D costs of medicine. i think its very unfair to blame the pharmaceutical companies for something that they have no control over.
Try this one, Captain:
A call to action against high prescription drug pricing in the United States.
Quote:
  • Prescription drug costs are rising 3 times faster than overall drug costs.
  • The pharmaceutical industry is the most profitable industry in the United States with return on equity of a whopping 39.4%.
  • Drug companies claim that high research and development costs are the reason they much charge so much for drugs, yet pharmaceutical research accounted for less than 1%(0.97%) of health spending in the US as compared to an average of 1.53% in the U.K., France, Japan, Italy and Canada. Interestingly enough 1/4 of all new drugs developed between 1970 and 1992 came from the U.K., Japan, Sweden and Germany who all have price controls in place. The presence of price controls does not appear to stifle innovation.
  • While the drug companies claim that 20% of the cost of a new drug is due to research costs that may be misleading. Rolled into that 20% cost is the cost for marketing research.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:11 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,395,557 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
its interesting that this is something that is blamed on pharmaceutical companies.

its really the other countires that are basically forcing us to subsidize their health care costs. i dont like government involvement, but since we cant control other governments we need to prevent other countries from benefiting from americans paying the R&D costs of medicine. i think its very unfair to blame the pharmaceutical companies for something that they have no control over.
it also has much to do with the requirements for approval here vs in other countries. it's not so much R&D costs as it is costs of approval. in many cases, this is a good thing. but it doesn't seem like people are dying in huge numbers in europe due to any breakdowns in the prescription drug supply chain.
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