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Old 05-04-2011, 10:57 AM
 
2,160 posts, read 4,939,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
First, of all I am extremely happy with how my contract came in. So when and if, I were to wear a union t-shirt or button, it would not mean anything except I am not ashamed to be part of a professional association.

I wear my NJMEA t-shirts frequently, it has nothing to do with my compensation and everything to do with my pride in professional learning of my craft.
First of all, you are making your responses all about YOU and YOUR specific situation. Congratulations that you are happy with how YOUR contract came in. I'm sure you owe a thank you card to your union for that. If, as was the case for the teachers in Fair Lawn, your contract had NOT made you "extremely happy", you would be picketing and parading the union logo at school. That would have EVERYTHING to do with your compensation and local politics, and we are discussing whether or not using school grounds and the classroom as the arena for this type of labor dispute showdown is appropriate. That's what this thread is about, not the fact that YOU are "extremely happy" with YOUR contract.

Furthermore, we are not talking about the PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION that is the NJ Marine Education Association (NJMEA). We are talking about NJEA which is first and foremost a LABOR UNION. There is a difference between a PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION whose only objective is to foster pride in a particular craft and further professional development, networking and information sharing, and a LABOR UNION whose main objective is to protect your compensation and tenure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Earth day is a very political issue for many people. My support of it is indicative of my political values, same would apply with supporting my union.

There are also many people who would find wearing an AIDS awareness ribbon inappropriate (I know this from a parent complaint) but that does not make it unprofessional or inappropriate.
OK, so your argument here is that because some people consider Earth Day and AIDS to be political topics, that should justify labor union politics to be played out in the classroom? What kind of logic is that?

Earth Day and AIDS are topics that have been presented and taught as a part of the science and health ed. curriculum in schools for a long, long time now. The fact that it's your job to teach it shows your support. If a parent has a problem with an AIDS awareness ribbon or an Earth Day t-shirt, they really have a problem with the curriculum and big picture politics. Again, this example is not analogous to the scenario of teachers parading their labor union demands and gripes while on the job.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Why does a t-shirt with a logo stating my professional association equate to propaganda and a cross stating my religious association not?

They are both stating what my beliefs are, wearing a union button or carrying a mug with the NJEA logo on it no more influences students than wearing a cross or ashes on my forehead. And fyi, the children cannot vote so there is no reason someone is trying to "sway" children.
NJMEA is a professional association.
NJEA is a labor union.

Big, big difference. The former pushes pride, professionalism and development, the latter pushes propaganda and politics.

Wearing a cross or ashes on your forehead is exercising your freedom of religion. Exercising your freedom of religion does not equate to proselytizing, preaching or protesting. Wearing the union logo does equate to preaching and protesting because the fact alone that you are a teacher makes it obvious that you are a member and supporter of the NJEA. When you bring the union logo and slogan into the classroom you ARE making a political statement, whether the students understand it or not. Again, this is the difference between wearing a cross and wearing a t-shirt that says "Support Christianity".
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:02 AM
 
2,160 posts, read 4,939,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
They probably didn't go seining, out on a research vessel or manage some 800+ gallons of aquaria either. But the reality is that the demand for more hands on inquiry based learning (and my school is a top school for just this reason) means that teachers are no longer standing in front of a blackboard in front of a pristine classroom. At least many of us are not, and we are still professionals.

So really, what is the appropriate dress code for seining? For a research vessel? For maintaining aquaria?

And FYI on the kids uniform days (two days a week at my school) I am in a pantsuit and heels.
Again, you are making your responses all about YOU. Obviously, if you "teach at the beach", no one is going to expect you to wear the same clothing as someone who teaches in a pristine classroom (and one is not more noble than the other). I know you can't really be this obtuse.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:08 AM
 
2,160 posts, read 4,939,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann77 View Post
What's with all of this appreciation teachers need? No other job gets "appreciated" this much.
We've already had this discussion here many times over.

It's because teachers are heroes and should really be making a bajillion gazillion dollars because they really deserve to be compensated per head, per hour.

They are the wind beneath your wings.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:23 AM
 
1,195 posts, read 1,613,693 times
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I agree with the OP and I am a teacher. No need to wear pro-union clothing. The conflict (whatever it is about) should not include the kids or interrupt pedagogy.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:27 AM
 
1,195 posts, read 1,613,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seque5tra View Post
We've already had this discussion here many times over.

It's because teachers are heroes and should really be making a bajillion gazillion dollars because they really deserve to be compensated per head, per hour.

They are the wind beneath your wings.

Wow that's a nasty post.

Not sure which teacher came on here and called him or herself a hero and asked for a bajillion gazillion dollars, but they are either trolling or delusional.

Maybe we could be treated the same as every other profession and not villified just because it seems to be the 'in' thing to do.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:56 PM
 
2,160 posts, read 4,939,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJmmadude View Post
Wow that's a nasty post.
I am sorry that I offended you.

However, my comment was not any more nasty than the comments from teachers and friends of teachers on this forum making snide comments about Christie's weight, Christie's wife, Christie's kids, "Wall Street" (that is my personal favorite...when teachers make ambiguous comments about how some nebulous entity called "Wall Street" is REALLY to blame for EVERYTHING), investment bankers who sit around all day on their asses and purportedly do a fraction of the work that teachers do and still make 6 figures, real estate agents who are really the ones that cheat the public, cops & firefighters who are the real leeches of public funds, and jealous people in general in the private sector that have "made wrong choices in life" by not teaching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJmmadude View Post
Not sure which teacher came on here and called him or herself a hero and asked for a bajillion gazillion dollars, but they are either trolling or delusional.
The "HERO" and "if teachers were paid per head, per hour, they'd be making $300,000 per year instead of 'ONLY' $60,000" ideology has been posted not only here on the NJ forums, but elsewhere on City Data (e.g. the Education and Politics & Controversies forums), not to mention all over the internet on other forums, blogs and Facebook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJmmadude View Post
Maybe we could be treated the same as every other profession

EXACTLY.

Last edited by Docendo discimus; 05-04-2011 at 02:17 PM.. Reason: bad speeling
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:31 PM
 
1,195 posts, read 1,613,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seque5tra View Post
I am sorry that I offended you.

However, my comment was not any more nasty than the comments from teachers and friends of teachers on this forum making snide comments about Christie's weight, Christie's wife, Christie's kids, "Wall Street" (that is my personal favorite...when teachers make ambiguous comments about how some nebulous entity called "Wall Street" is REALLY to blame for EVERYTHING), investment bankers who sit around all day on their asses and purportedly do a fraction of the work that teachers do and still make 6 figures, real estate agents who are really the ones that cheat the public, cops & firefighters who are the real leeches of public funds, and jealous people in general in the private sector that have "made wrong choices in life" by not teaching.



The "HERO" and "if teachers were paid per head, per hour, they'd be making $300,000 per year instead of 'ONLY' $60,000" ideology has been posted not only here on the NJ forums, but elsewhere on City Data (e.g. the Education and Politics & Controversies forums), not to mention all over the internet on other forums, blogs and Facebook.




EXACTLY.

Hey Sequestra,

I wrote out a post regarding my feelings about Christie in the thread 'Christie is losing his appeal'. I didn't want to copy/paste it in case it was 'spamming' to do so, but please check it out. It does mention teachers.

It sounds like you have a lot of pent-up frustrations about some things that teachers/friends of teachers and co. have said. i understand your position.

In contrast, I think that there are also teachers who have heard plenty about being overpaid, overcompensated, glorified babysitters who are nearly solely responsible for the tragic conditions of our economy and that we are a homogeneous reflection of our rich and entitled union who protects us all while we hide away and laugh at the taxpayers and await our next day off.

I think such hyperbole is damaging and benefits no one.

Teaching is no different than any other profession, 80/20, good/bad, lazy/hardworking, old/young, honest/plays the system. Whatever. Truth is that we're no more paintable with a broad brush than anyone else.

Me? It's an honor to be a teacher. I love my job and consider it a blessing. So all of this politic and vitriol is silly to me.

Thanks for your apology, I didn't hold it against you.
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:37 PM
 
2,160 posts, read 4,939,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJmmadude View Post
I wrote out a post regarding my feelings about Christie in the thread 'Christie is losing his appeal'. I didn't want to copy/paste it in case it was 'spamming' to do so, but please check it out. It does mention teachers.
I was keeping my nose out of that thread but I read your post and this forum could benefit from more like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJmmadude View Post
It sounds like you have a lot of pent-up frustrations about some things that teachers/friends of teachers and co. have said. i understand your position.
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJmmadude View Post
In contrast, I think that there are also teachers who have heard plenty about being overpaid, overcompensated, glorified babysitters who are nearly solely responsible for the tragic conditions of our economy and that we are a homogeneous reflection of our rich and entitled union who protects us all while we hide away and laugh at the taxpayers and await our next day off.

I think such hyperbole is damaging and benefits no one.
True and true. I will concede that when teachers start in with the "hero" and "paid per head" propaganda, it is probably in response to the type of hyperbole that you mention. The dialog has gotten hyperbolic on both sides. It is like a verbal nuclear arms race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJmmadude View Post
Teaching is no different than any other profession, 80/20, good/bad, lazy/hardworking, old/young, honest/plays the system. Whatever. Truth is that we're no more paintable with a broad brush than anyone else.
True.

I want to make it clear that I am not anti-teacher, and I don't think very many people here, or in general, are either. And it's not even teacher salary, per se, that most people care about. People have issues with how the union does business. They don't seem amenable to any kind of compromise.
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:58 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,574 posts, read 45,968,514 times
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I really am not a fan of the NJEA, but I don't see this as a big deal.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:14 PM
 
3,984 posts, read 7,047,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
Next they'll be saluting each other to show solidarity with their comrades.

Our children and our future should not be exposed to the NJEA and all it stands for. The NJEA uses our children as shields and hostages while conscripting union memebers money and forcing membership. What's not to like?

No problem with the teachers wearing uniforms, not simply T-shirts. Perhaps yellow coveralls with red piping and their names embroidered on the front pocket with a socialist slogan across the back.

As a taxpayer you just pay the NJEA and have no say as to what teachers are allowed, encouraged or required to do by the union elite.
Just shut your mouth and take the pain. It's for the children.
I agree, like McDonald's uniforms. As a matter of fact, we should have corporations running schools and outsourcing teaching jobs to the lowest bidder in India & China. "Mr. Chang doesn't speak a lick of English, but you know he'll work for $4/hour, sleeps in the broom closet and doesn't need a pension because he plans on dying in front of his students when he's 85 yrs. old. What a teacher!"

America has already won the race to the bottom...
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