Should Newark and Jersey City become one? (Irvington, Bloomfield: sales, apartment)

[Jersey08057]

Originally Posted by NWK student rapper

Newark/ jerseycity needs its own un biased media... how can we have 4 pro sports teams and 2 cities that have urbanized areas bigger than all but maybe 20 cities in the country with no television no radio station ? theres 2 downtowns

@NewarkStudentRapper. True. I don't think the Nets would have left if they did. How can you build a buzz or excitement with no media outlets. It's like we let Philly and New York dictate how we see ourselves. The scary part is most people in our state think this is normal.

[NWK student rapper]

Originally Posted by Jersey08057

@NewarkStudentRapper. True. I don't think the Nets would have left if they did. How can you build a buzz or excitement with no media outlets. It's like we let Philly and New York dictate how we see ourselves. The scary part is most people in our state think this is normal.

election time rolls around and every town around that area says " LOWER MY TAXES" and no one stops to think what are we actually paying for ?

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by NWK student rapper

once again ... is any upscale neighborhood in any city under a strangle hold because its attached to bad neighborhoods on the other side of the tracks ? does north philly ruin university city ? does englewood ruin westtown (chicago )

That's part of the 1960s-1990s decline of cities in the first place. Philadelphia is on the upswing now, but until very recently, the decent part of University City extended not much more than a block from the schools themselves.

NO ! Newark just added panasonic and got prudential to rebuild and got nj pac to build and pulled in audible newark's downtown is moving along

And what do these showcase companies do for the average resident of the West Ward, let alone a resident of West Orange in some Greater Newark?

The problem is the same one faced by the Roman Republic -- bread and circuses. A greater Newark would have a population where the poor citizens in the core areas would greatly outnumber the wealthier citizens in the outer areas. And the city government would be the same city government used to catering to the poor. The temptation to take the tax money from the wealthy bastards and redistribute it to the poor ones would be irresistible; to me, it seems the most likely reason they'd want such an annexation in the first place. That's your bread; the circuses would be whatever they'd do downtown -- convention centers, sports arenas, skyscrapers, what have you.

.... and lemme ask you something ... what if it worked ... negative thinkers never accomplish anything

Perhaps not, but negative thinking can prevent positive disasters.

[66nexus]

Originally Posted by nybbler

That's part of the 1960s-1990s decline of cities in the first place. Philadelphia is on the upswing now, but until very recently, the decent part of University City extended not much more than a block from the schools themselves.


And what do these showcase companies do for the average resident of the West Ward, let alone a resident of West Orange in some Greater Newark?

The problem is the same one faced by the Roman Republic -- bread and circuses. A greater Newark would have a population where the poor citizens in the core areas would greatly outnumber the wealthier citizens in the outer areas. And the city government would be the same city government used to catering to the poor. The temptation to take the tax money from the wealthy bastards and redistribute it to the poor ones would be irresistible; to me, it seems the most likely reason they'd want such an annexation in the first place. That's your bread; the circuses would be whatever they'd do downtown -- convention centers, sports arenas, skyscrapers, what have you.


Perhaps not, but negative thinking can prevent positive disasters.

False.

And, Essex county citizens are already taxed to pay for Newark/EO etc.

[NWK student rapper]

Originally Posted by 66nexus

False.

And, Essex county citizens are already taxed to pay for Newark/EO etc.

i think he missed that when i said that 2 times already! I think I should see if its something that's petition-able to at least bring to voters in a election a year from now or so. Most people from West Orange probably would still say they are from West Orange which brings neighborhood recognition. How the government would be to small to manage all the towns is beyond me, most of the neighborhoods are already thriving and safe all Newark has to do is not **** it up

[NWK student rapper]

Originally Posted by nybbler

That's part of the 1960s-1990s decline of cities in the first place. Philadelphia is on the upswing now, but until very recently, the decent part of University City extended not much more than a block from the schools themselves.


And what do these showcase companies do for the average resident of the West Ward, let alone a resident of West Orange in some Greater Newark?

The problem is the same one faced by the Roman Republic -- bread and circuses. A greater Newark would have a population where the poor citizens in the core areas would greatly outnumber the wealthier citizens in the outer areas. And the city government would be the same city government used to catering to the poor. The temptation to take the tax money from the wealthy bastards and redistribute it to the poor ones would be irresistible; to me, it seems the most likely reason they'd want such an annexation in the first place. That's your bread; the circuses would be whatever they'd do downtown -- convention centers, sports arenas, skyscrapers, what have you.


Perhaps not, but negative thinking can prevent positive disasters.

Ads a tax base, brings people into downtown business on a daily basis, those people probably eat out. The require hotels for people coming in on business trips, They give you a reason to want to be a part of the city. Lets face it about a decade ago Newark was only known company was prudential no other company was around. but between all of these new buildings and a pro sports team and teachers village newark is trying very hard to clean up its downtown ON ITS OWN. If Newark tripled in population overnight you can probably expect to see nj transit making huge move right afterwards to tie the wards to downtown. If Jersey City does the same with Hudson county and nj transit links the 2 towns together with some light rail or dmu trains then people in union, passaic and bergen would probably love to not pay 15 bucks to get to work every day and stay in jersey

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by 66nexus

False.

And, Essex county citizens are already taxed to pay for Newark/EO etc.

See post #40 for the population figures -- it's true, the population of the poor areas of a greater Newark would vastly outnumber the wealthier ones. And yes, Essex County citizens (and to a lesser degree, the entire state) are already taxed to pay for Newark/EO/Irvington/etc, but giving direct taxation power to Newark will make things worse in those areas.

Originally Posted by NWK Student Rapper

Ads a tax base, brings people into downtown business on a daily basis, those people probably eat out. The require hotels for people coming in on business trips, They give you a reason to want to be a part of the city.

Doesn't really add tax base because in order to get these companies into Newark in the first place, tax concessions have to be given. And as we've seen with the Nets and Panasonic, they can leave at the drop of the hat if the situation looks better somewhere else -- and then what do the hotels do? Besides, you still haven't answered the question: How do these things benefit the people of the West Ward, or the North Ward, or those of the Greater Newark you would like to create?

If Newark tripled in population overnight you can probably expect to see nj transit making huge move right afterwards to tie the wards to downtown.

NJ Transit is a state agency; moving municipal boundaries is not going to change its plans.

[66nexus]

Originally Posted by nybbler

See post #40 for the population figures -- it's true, the population of the poor areas of a greater Newark would vastly outnumber the wealthier ones. And yes, Essex County citizens (and to a lesser degree, the entire state) are already taxed to pay for Newark/EO/Irvington/etc, but giving direct taxation power to Newark will make things worse in those areas.

Essex Co. 748,930

-EO 64,270
-Irvington 53.926
-Newark 277,140

= 353,594 remaining residents vs. 393,336 (Nwk/EO/Irv)

I'm still not clear how the difference of -40k is 'vastly outnumbering'. And let's be honest, many of those in Essex urban areas are not only ineligible to vote, for various reasons, but voter turnout has been historically low (going back 2-3 decades).

-----------But this is my version (ALL of Essex County)------------------

Your version, which is more piecemeal as far as merging, wouldn't work as effectively (in which, I would agree w/ you to an extent). However, I don't think merging would suddenly push these towns down. Why? Because it wouldn't suddenly mean folks could afford to move West as property values would still be higher than the rest of Newark.

[66nexus]

Originally Posted by nybbler

Besides, you still haven't answered the question: How do these things benefit the people of the West Ward, or the North Ward, or those of the Greater Newark you would like to create?

If I may:

it wouldn't be a direct benefit, but it WOULD be a trickle-effect. Developments downtown mean more money downtown (restaurants, 'tourism',) and encourages even more development downtown (because a reason for people to be there other than a job-center has been created). That increases a city's tax base, which is better for services like police, fire, etc.

All the apartments being built along Market wouldn't have happened w/o the arena as an anchor, and Newark needs more middle-class $$ since there's so much poverty which doesn't help the tax base.

[njkate]

A simple NO