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Old 10-17-2011, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Glen Rock, NJ
667 posts, read 1,738,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
If you are coming from out of state you will find that most all the schools in NJ are good.

If your child is an C student they will not become an A student when you move to the "best school system"

Every year there are kids from the inner city going to the best universities in the country. Not because of the schools they attended but because they had parents that knew the value of an education.

The best education starts at home, not in the classroom.
I don't disagree with the comment PDD as I am one of those inner city youth that made it out of a poor school system. However, I think the downside is a much darker picture than you paint. While I was a top student and with parents that valued education, the environment in these schools were/are truly unsafe and not kind for folks that did want to pay attention and do well. I saw teachers get hit, fights breaking out every single day, in and out of classrooms, robberies/assault time and time again, etc. My job beyond just trying to do well so I could get to a top university was simply staying alive. On the teaching side, whether they didn't care or were afraid or just plain exhausted, it made for a very poor environment. So much so that I recall meeting with a guidance counselor just once and that was in my senior year of HS where at that point all decisions had been made. I remember given the choice at the time in 9th grade to select a regents diploma (NYS) or simply take elementary courses (basic math, english, etc), without even explaining to me what the repercussions of those choices would mean (ex: regents diploma were required to access all of the top schools). Parent participation is very low at these schools and beacuse of it so is accountability. So yes, some can and will make it, especially with a good home to come to but odds are stacked against you in so many ways. That's an experience I vowed not to give to my children when I chose a place to dig in roots.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:02 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,599,249 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfsr1544 View Post
I don't disagree with the comment PDD as I am one of those inner city youth that made it out of a poor school system. However, I think the downside is a much darker picture than you paint. While I was a top student and with parents that valued education, the environment in these schools were/are truly unsafe and not kind for folks that did want to pay attention and do well. I saw teachers get hit, fights breaking out every single day, in and out of classrooms, robberies/assault time and time again, etc. My job beyond just trying to do well so I could get to a top university was simply staying alive. On the teaching side, whether they didn't care or were afraid or just plain exhausted, it made for a very poor environment. So much so that I recall meeting with a guidance counselor just once and that was in my senior year of HS where at that point all decisions had been made. I remember given the choice at the time in 9th grade to select a regents diploma (NYS) or simply take elementary courses (basic math, english, etc), without even explaining to me what the repercussions of those choices would mean (ex: regents diploma were required to access all of the top schools). Parent participation is very low at these schools and beacuse of it so is accountability. So yes, some can and will make it, especially with a good home to come to but odds are stacked against you in so many ways. That's an experience I vowed not to give to my children when I chose a place to dig in roots.
great post!
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,136 posts, read 83,978,350 times
Reputation: 114424
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfsr1544 View Post
I don't disagree with the comment PDD as I am one of those inner city youth that made it out of a poor school system. However, I think the downside is a much darker picture than you paint. While I was a top student and with parents that valued education, the environment in these schools were/are truly unsafe and not kind for folks that did want to pay attention and do well. I saw teachers get hit, fights breaking out every single day, in and out of classrooms, robberies/assault time and time again, etc. My job beyond just trying to do well so I could get to a top university was simply staying alive. On the teaching side, whether they didn't care or were afraid or just plain exhausted, it made for a very poor environment. So much so that I recall meeting with a guidance counselor just once and that was in my senior year of HS where at that point all decisions had been made. I remember given the choice at the time in 9th grade to select a regents diploma (NYS) or simply take elementary courses (basic math, english, etc), without even explaining to me what the repercussions of those choices would mean (ex: regents diploma were required to access all of the top schools). Parent participation is very low at these schools and beacuse of it so is accountability. So yes, some can and will make it, especially with a good home to come to but odds are stacked against you in so many ways. That's an experience I vowed not to give to my children when I chose a place to dig in roots.

Good on you for getting out of there. A friend of mine grew up similarly. Her mother volunteered as an aide in her and her siblings school and made sure her kids got into every program that was offered. All but one of them went to college and got out of the inner city. A few years ago she saw some traits of Newark spilling over into the suburban town where she lived and packed up and moved her kids to a quieter town further away.

As a side note, I remember having a conversation with her about how my mother made us all brown-bag lunches as kids because it was cheaper than the school cafeteria lunch, and she didn't know what I was talking about. She thought schools gave free lunch to all kids, because she never knew anyone who didn't get the free school lunch.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:53 AM
 
2,535 posts, read 6,643,432 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfsr1544 View Post
I don't disagree with the comment PDD as I am one of those inner city youth that made it out of a poor school system. However, I think the downside is a much darker picture than you paint. While I was a top student and with parents that valued education, the environment in these schools were/are truly unsafe and not kind for folks that did want to pay attention and do well. I saw teachers get hit, fights breaking out every single day, in and out of classrooms, robberies/assault time and time again, etc. My job beyond just trying to do well so I could get to a top university was simply staying alive. On the teaching side, whether they didn't care or were afraid or just plain exhausted, it made for a very poor environment. So much so that I recall meeting with a guidance counselor just once and that was in my senior year of HS where at that point all decisions had been made. I remember given the choice at the time in 9th grade to select a regents diploma (NYS) or simply take elementary courses (basic math, english, etc), without even explaining to me what the repercussions of those choices would mean (ex: regents diploma were required to access all of the top schools). Parent participation is very low at these schools and beacuse of it so is accountability. So yes, some can and will make it, especially with a good home to come to but odds are stacked against you in so many ways. That's an experience I vowed not to give to my children when I chose a place to dig in roots.
Great Post!
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:55 AM
 
1,173 posts, read 4,737,283 times
Reputation: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfsr1544 View Post
I don't disagree with the comment PDD as I am one of those inner city youth that made it out of a poor school system. However, I think the downside is a much darker picture than you paint. While I was a top student and with parents that valued education, the environment in these schools were/are truly unsafe and not kind for folks that did want to pay attention and do well. I saw teachers get hit, fights breaking out every single day, in and out of classrooms, robberies/assault time and time again, etc. My job beyond just trying to do well so I could get to a top university was simply staying alive. On the teaching side, whether they didn't care or were afraid or just plain exhausted, it made for a very poor environment. So much so that I recall meeting with a guidance counselor just once and that was in my senior year of HS where at that point all decisions had been made. I remember given the choice at the time in 9th grade to select a regents diploma (NYS) or simply take elementary courses (basic math, english, etc), without even explaining to me what the repercussions of those choices would mean (ex: regents diploma were required to access all of the top schools). Parent participation is very low at these schools and beacuse of it so is accountability. So yes, some can and will make it, especially with a good home to come to but odds are stacked against you in so many ways. That's an experience I vowed not to give to my children when I chose a place to dig in roots.
VERY well said!! I too went through a crappy school system, same as you lfsr? NYC? And it's very dsitracting and discouraging. The resources are just not there and the general student body's lack of ambition is contagious. There is so much to be said for the ambition level of the students your children go to school with, like it or not it DOES influence your kids.

In schools like Millburn the "slackers" are going to go to community colleges or party schools. In places with bad school systems the "slackers" drop out after their third run through the 9th or 10th grade.

I too REFUSED to give my children the type of education that was available to me and gave a lot of thought into the school district and general enviroment our children would go to school.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:55 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,773 posts, read 18,311,987 times
Reputation: 12001
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfsr1544 View Post
I don't disagree with the comment PDD as I am one of those inner city youth that made it out of a poor school system. However, I think the downside is a much darker picture than you paint. While I was a top student and with parents that valued education, the environment in these schools were/are truly unsafe and not kind for folks that did want to pay attention and do well. I saw teachers get hit, fights breaking out every single day, in and out of classrooms, robberies/assault time and time again, etc. My job beyond just trying to do well so I could get to a top university was simply staying alive. On the teaching side, whether they didn't care or were afraid or just plain exhausted, it made for a very poor environment. So much so that I recall meeting with a guidance counselor just once and that was in my senior year of HS where at that point all decisions had been made. I remember given the choice at the time in 9th grade to select a regents diploma (NYS) or simply take elementary courses (basic math, english, etc), without even explaining to me what the repercussions of those choices would mean (ex: regents diploma were required to access all of the top schools). Parent participation is very low at these schools and beacuse of it so is accountability. So yes, some can and will make it, especially with a good home to come to but odds are stacked against you in so many ways. That's an experience I vowed not to give to my children when I chose a place to dig in roots.
I don't disagree with any of your post and congrats for making it through a tough school system.
My complaint with some of the posters on this board is their comments that if you don't go to one of the top schools you will be getting a lesser education.
You don't have to live in the town with "this years top school" to get a great education in NJ. Yes some are better than others but so are some of the best colleges better then others.
I know I'd rather brag about my son being in the top 5%
taking the SAT than bragging about living in Milburn and my kid is in the 50 percentile.
Is it about educating you kids or bragging about your address?
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:38 PM
 
1,173 posts, read 4,737,283 times
Reputation: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
I don't disagree with any of your post and congrats for making it through a tough school system.
My complaint with some of the posters on this board is their comments that if you don't go to one of the top schools you will be getting a lesser education.
You don't have to live in the town with "this years top school" to get a great education in NJ. Yes some are better than others but so are some of the best colleges better then others.
I know I'd rather brag about my son being in the top 5%
taking the SAT than bragging about living in Milburn and my kid is in the 50 percentile.
Is it about educating you kids or bragging about your address?
This is true too! I think a lot time there is an over emphasis on this board of ending up in a top 10 school distrcit. If it's something you can comfortably afford and you like the town beyond just the schools then YES by all means go live in those towns!

But a lot of times we see people on here so bent out of shape about moving to Millburn or Ridgewood etc. and they are going to buy the cheapest house they can find that's in 5x's worse condition and 5x's more expensive than a neighboring town with a middle of the road school system. It's ridiculous!

We chose a top third school district with high parental involvement in a wholesome town. So far we are very pleased.

You don't have to have the best of the best, you just need to avoid the worst of the worst. Especially in a state like NJ where MOST of our schools are excellent. Unfortunately our cities are the ones that fall into this worst category.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Glen Rock, NJ
667 posts, read 1,738,924 times
Reputation: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
I don't disagree with any of your post and congrats for making it through a tough school system.
My complaint with some of the posters on this board is their comments that if you don't go to one of the top schools you will be getting a lesser education.
You don't have to live in the town with "this years top school" to get a great education in NJ. Yes some are better than others but so are some of the best colleges better then others.
I know I'd rather brag about my son being in the top 5%
taking the SAT than bragging about living in Milburn and my kid is in the 50 percentile.
Is it about educating you kids or bragging about your address?
It is absolutely about educating your kids, however, the unfortunate side is that the real estate collapse really put such a dense fog in what has value and what doesn't that it's just not as easy of an answer for new buyers who are paranoid in making the wrong choice. I find the price valuations from neighborhood to neighborhood have become much bigger than closer. We just purchased this summer after 8 months of 'searching' and experienced all this first hand. Thanks to CD forums as well as many posters here provide so much information --- you get both sides of it too, which is so valuable!

Add to it my previous story from the 'hood' with the poor choice of buying our 1st home --at the wrong place, at the wrong time (Feb 2006) and we weren't going to wildly speculate anymore. We ended up focusing more and more on the higher tier (cost wise) neighborhoods just because we felt the market was holding well in these areas...we also couldn't make the same mistake 2x--both financially and mentally. One thing we learned quickly is that the RE agents serving these areas were very astute and wether by design or by coincidence help keep prices fairly stable.
Yes, many homes went down about 10% from LP but many also sold much closer to asking, if not higher. We negotiated our price down about 7%, but all in all it was not what we expected when we started my search. We don't regret the decision as we really love the home, schools and the neighborhood...and the kids are happy! Mind you after seeing my first tax bill I had to remind myself of the same 3 kids and why I moved them here... but I know that it's a place where we feel like we finally have come home--and that in itself is priceless.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Glen Rock, NJ
667 posts, read 1,738,924 times
Reputation: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by icibiu View Post
This is true too! I think a lot time there is an over emphasis on this board of ending up in a top 10 school distrcit. If it's something you can comfortably afford and you like the town beyond just the schools then YES by all means go live in those towns!

But a lot of times we see people on here so bent out of shape about moving to Millburn or Ridgewood etc. and they are going to buy the cheapest house they can find that's in 5x's worse condition and 5x's more expensive than a neighboring town with a middle of the road school system. It's ridiculous!

We chose a top third school district with high parental involvement in a wholesome town. So far we are very pleased.

You don't have to have the best of the best, you just need to avoid the worst of the worst. Especially in a state like NJ where MOST of our schools are excellent. Unfortunately our cities are the ones that fall into this worst category.


This is very true and good advice. I will say the folks at NJ Monthly have such a mktg goldmine as they help predetermine your town's rank without very valid data...and people eat it up! While I focused on ASK scores and other factors I have to admit that when you see your town up or down on that list it does bring up quite a bit of emotion. Interestingly enough it was our starting point when we decided to move to NJ. What a racket!
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Glen Rock, NJ
667 posts, read 1,738,924 times
Reputation: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Good on you for getting out of there. A friend of mine grew up similarly. Her mother volunteered as an aide in her and her siblings school and made sure her kids got into every program that was offered. All but one of them went to college and got out of the inner city. A few years ago she saw some traits of Newark spilling over into the suburban town where she lived and packed up and moved her kids to a quieter town further away.

As a side note, I remember having a conversation with her about how my mother made us all brown-bag lunches as kids because it was cheaper than the school cafeteria lunch, and she didn't know what I was talking about. She thought schools gave free lunch to all kids, because she never knew anyone who didn't get the free school lunch.
Your side note does bring back memories. I thought exactly as your friend regarding school lunch. It's a bit humbling when you see it as an adult. Thank God those kids at least get fed in school as I knew kids that had no food at home.
Now we're in a total 180 environment -- redshirt Kindergarteners, No free Pre-k, half day Kindergarten and the fund raising...holy schmoly. There is more school fund raising than I have ever experienced. And when you're done there, you have your local town fund raising and then at work you have to support your peers...It's a full time job just to support it!
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