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Even if the pipeline is underground, there still will be a disturbance to the natural environment. You have to go in a drill underground and bring in all of that equipment to do so. Yes, perhaps, it will not be that wide of an area, but it will be a scar going through land that is part of a protected area network!
I'm, sorry, but that is not important. We can't just stop life and progress because a small group of people want to designate sections of the planet as "off limits". That is not rational, and people of common sense have to start speaking out against this type of obstructionism.
And the greenhouse gas argument is completely controversial and is used as a bludgeon to stop progress at every turn. It's utter nonsense. First of all, not all climatologists are on board. There is plenty of dissent. Second, even if there is global warming, it may be occuring as a natural consequence and may be normal variance. Third, even if it is man-made, which is not proven, it is most likely benign. Fourth, even if raises sea levels and does cause some ice cap melting and a rise in sea levels, that may be a good thing that could result in many areas of the globe becoming newly arable, adding to the potential food supply. If a few coastal areas begin to go under, we can all move inland a bit over the decades that it will take for the sea to rise. In other words, climate change may be a fantastic opportunity. Fifth, even if it is not benign, fossil fuels supply will disappear entirely on their own in less than 100 years according to many estimates. So the problem, if it exists at all, is self-limiting, and man need do nothing about it. We will run out of oil, prices will rise to unacceptable levels compared to alternative energy sources, making them newly feasible, and we will naturally shift to solar, nuclear, wind, wave, etc.
But trust me, even when that happens, there will be a cadre of miserable environmental whackos who will protest the wind mills, claiming they interrupt the flight patterns of some future dodo bird to be. Or protest nuclear, because of a potential melt-down. Or protest solar farms, because they disturb the ground traffic of wandering mammals. Or protest waves, because the infrastructure disturbs the mating patterns of an obscure sea mollusk.
And even when we are reduced to cooking our food on campfires as we return to the Stone Age, they will protest the trees that were killed to supply the necessary wood.
It's not about the "environment", and it never was. It's about stopping Man.
We know how to build pipelines that don't leak. And if a leak is found? Guess what? We'll fix the damned thing!
Apparently, we don't.
Royal Dutch Shell said an oil leak from a ruptured pipeline into the North Sea was slowing but refused to say how much oil has already leaked into the sea. Shell mum on flow from oil pipeline leak | Reuters
ExxonMobil Pipeline Leaks 42,000 Gallons of Oil Into Yellowstone River
Exxon detected the leak on Saturday morning following a loss of pressure on pipeline and within seven minutes the pipeline pumps were shut down, the company said in a press release. That did not, however, prevent nearly 42,000 gallons of crude oil to be spewed into the famed river.
An oil spill in a remote northwestern corner of Alberta has turned out to be the province’s largest in 36 years, according to regulators. Bow Valley line leaked 40,000 barrels of oil Rainbow oil pipeline leak largest in 36 years
That's only a few this year.
I'm, sorry, but that is not important. We can't just stop life and progress because a small group of people want to designate sections of the planet as "off limits". That is not rational, and people of common sense have to start speaking out against this type of obstructionism.
First, that land is not completely "off limits." Have you ever been to the parking lot of the Ramapo Reservation on any nice weekend day? That land is used extensively by many people for fishing, hiking, hunting,etc. As public land, people have a RIGHT to access it in its natural state; that's the purpose of designating it as a protected area. Just like people have a RIGHT to safe drinking water; environmental accidents do occur on these pipelines. These watersheds are often vital to local drinking sources; hence, they are put to use for human usage too. So to assume that all forests should be cut down, all rivers should be polluted, etc. THAT'S not rationale! Common sense dictates that you do need some development and progress, but it must be done within reasonable limits. Protected areas are where the line gets drawn. I am not suggesting that we all live off the land like this is 1327, I am just saying that certain limits need to be put into place for the health of our planet and those human beings that inhabit it. Protected areas are designed to "protect" the environment and not to be destroyed by whatever corporation has its eyes on that particular piece of land.
Even if the pipeline is underground, there still will be a disturbance to the natural environment. You have to go in a drill underground and bring in all of that equipment to do so. Yes, perhaps, it will not be that wide of an area, but it will be a scar going through land that is part of a protected area network!
who cares????? these environmental wackos are absolutely insane. the environment can handle a minor disturbance. its insane that we let these environmental nuts have any say whatsoever. our president is owned by them. after the 2012 election, i dont want to hear anything ever again about subsidizing renewable energies or not doing projects that make total sense because someone thinks it may disturb some trees and grass.
I care. People care. That land is valued here in Bergen County by many people because it is the only large piece of undeveloped land left in the county. And it is USED by many for various activities. That's who cares.
Secondly, you say all environmentalists are "wackos"?! I do not really think that you would want to live in a world without them. The air that you would breath would make you cough, the water would make you sick, your house would turn an ugly brown; I can go on and on. So we need environmental protection and I am glad that the environmentalists are around to advocate for it.
Finally, I am not opposed to any disturbance. I am just suggesting that the environmental laws that we have such be respected to what they were intended to be for. That means, protected lands should be protected. That's all.
I care. People care. That land is valued here in Bergen County by many people because it is the only large piece of undeveloped land left in the county. And it is USED by many for various activities. That's who cares.
Secondly, you say all environmentalists are "wackos"?! I do not really think that you would want to live in a world without them. The air that you would breath would make you cough, the water would make you sick, your house would turn an ugly brown; I can go on and on. So we need environmental protection and I am glad that the environmentalists are around to advocate for it.
Finally, I am not opposed to any disturbance. I am just suggesting that the environmental laws that we have such be respected to what they were intended to be for. That means, protected lands should be protected. That's all.
And those people will still be able to use the land after the pipeline is built. You see, pipelines are very interesting in that they are buried underground, where they can't be seen or heard. So there is no issue with the people. And there is no issue with the environment either. You see, there is another interesting feature of an underground pipeline. Once it is installed, stuff can be planted again, and in a very short time, no one will even know that it is there. So please stop with the "scar" nonsense.
And by the way, you seem to be fine with the land being used, as long as it is used in a way that you like. I would argue that humans trudging around, hiking and biking and wandering about are a FAR MORE INTENSE disturbance than a pipeline will ever be.
So let's stop the nonsense and start building this and other pipelines. Cheap natural gas will lower our utility costs, and spur more development. Development means more jobs, and lots of new and interesting businesses.
First, that land is not completely "off limits." Have you ever been to the parking lot of the Ramapo Reservation on any nice weekend day? That land is used extensively by many people for fishing, hiking, hunting,etc. As public land, people have a RIGHT to access it in its natural state; that's the purpose of designating it as a protected area. Just like people have a RIGHT to safe drinking water; environmental accidents do occur on these pipelines. These watersheds are often vital to local drinking sources; hence, they are put to use for human usage too. So to assume that all forests should be cut down, all rivers should be polluted, etc. THAT'S not rationale! Common sense dictates that you do need some development and progress, but it must be done within reasonable limits. Protected areas are where the line gets drawn. I am not suggesting that we all live off the land like this is 1327, I am just saying that certain limits need to be put into place for the health of our planet and those human beings that inhabit it. Protected areas are designed to "protect" the environment and not to be destroyed by whatever corporation has its eyes on that particular piece of land.
People do not have a "right" to access anything in its natural state. Where the heck did you come up with that? Recreational "rights"? Does not exist. People also have a "right" to affordable energy. I'm just going to postulate that, since inventing rights out of thin air is OK. And the right to affordable energy is more important than the right to hiking trails. So you are completely wrong both in reality, and in fantasyland.
You see, pipelines are very interesting in that they are buried underground, where they can't be seen or heard
Where are you getting that from? Commercial pipelines aren't buried underground but rin about the ground.
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And the right to affordable energy
If that be the case, let's see some guarantee that this oil will lower the cost HERE in the US. Let them back it up with a five hundred million dollar bond that the oil that flows through the pipeline will stay here in the US and NOT be imported into another country. But you will never get that. The oil pipeline
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This phase, known as Cushing MarketLink, is part of the Keystone XL pipeline. This proposed phase would start from Cushing, Oklahoma where domestic oil would be added to the pipeline, then it would expand 435 miles (700 km) to a delivery point near terminals in Nederland, Texas to serve the Port Arthur, Texas marketplace
A deep water port in Texas? I guess that's where it ends because the oil is staying here in the US. Not because it's going to be loaded into tankers and sold at the highest rate possible.
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Portions of the pipeline will also cross an active seismic zone that had a 4.3 magnitude earthquake as recently as 2002.[49] Opponents claim that TransCanada applied to the U.S. government to use thinner steel and pump at higher pressures than normal
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In response to negative publicity, president and CEO of TransCanada Russ Girling touted the positive impact of the project by "putting 20,000 US workers to work and spending $7 billion stimulating the US economy."[71] This has been disputed by an independent study conducted by the Cornell ILR Global Labor Institute which found that while the Keystone XL would result in 2,500 to 4,650 temporary construction jobs, this impact will be reduced by higher oil prices in the Midwest which will likely reduce national employment.
Analyst believe that including the Alberta Clipper pipeline owned by TransCanada's competitor Enbridge, there is an extensive overcapacity of oil pipelines from Canada and after completion of the Keystone XL line oil pipelines to the U.S. will run nearly half-empty.
Due to an exemption the state gave TransCanada, the local authorities would lose $50 million public revenue from property taxes for a decade.
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In February 2011, environmental journalist David Sassoon of Inside Climate News reported that Koch Industries were poised to be "big winners" from the pipeline. In May 2011, Congressmen Waxman and Rush wrote a letter to the Energy and Commerce Committee which cited the Reuters story, and which urged the Committee to request documents from Koch Industries which relate to the Keystone XL pipeline.
In March 1999, Koch Petroleum Group, a Koch Industries subsidiary, pled guilty to charges that it had negligently dumped hundreds of thousands of gallons of aviation fuel into wetlands near the Mississippi River from its refinery in Rosemount, Minnesota, and that it had also illegally dumped a million gallons of high-ammonia wastewater onto the ground and into the Mississippi River. Koch Petroleum paid the Dakota County Park System a $6 million fine and $2 million in remediation costs, and was ordered to serve three years of probation.
In 1999, a federal jury found that Koch Industries had stolen oil from government and American Indian lands, had lied about its purchases more than 24,000 times, and was fined $553,504.
In January 2000, a Koch Industries subsidiary, Koch Pipeline, agreed to a $35 million settlement with the U.S. Justice Department and the State of Texas. This settlement, including a $30 million civil fine, was incurred for the firm's three hundred oil spills in Texas and five other states going back to 1990. The spills resulted in more than 3 million US gallons (11,000 m3) of crude oil leaking into ponds, lakes, streams and coastal waters.
In 2001, the company reached two settlements with the government. In April, the company reached a $20 million settlement in exchange for admitting to covering up environmental violations at its refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas.[38][39] That May, Koch Industries paid $25 million to the federal government to settle a federal lawsuit that found the company had improperly taken more oil than it had paid for from federal and Indian land.
In June 2003, the US Commerce Department fined Koch Industries subsidiary Flint Hill Resources a $200,000 civil penalty. The fine settled charges that the company exported crude petroleum from the US to Canada without proper US government authorization. The Commerce Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security said from July 1997 to March 1999, Koch Petroleum (later called Flint Hill Resources) committed 40 violations of Export Administration Regulations.
In 2006, Koch Industries’ subsidiary Flint Hill Resources was fined nearly $16,000 by the EPA for 10 separate violations of the Clean Air Act at its Alaska oil refinery facilities, and required to spend another $60,000 on safety equipment needed to help prevent future violations.
In 2007, Koch Nitrogen's plant in Enid, Oklahoma, was listed as the third highest company releasing toxic chemicals in Oklahoma, according to the EPA, ranking behind Perma-Fix Environmental Services in Tulsa and Weyerhaeuser Co. in Valliant. The facility produces about 10% of the US national production of anhydrous ammonia, as well as urea and UAN.
In 2010, Koch Industries was ranked 10th on the list of top US corporate air polluters, the "Toxic 100 Air Polluters", by the Political Economic Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts Amherst.
What could possibly go wrong with them in control.
Where are you getting that from? Commercial pipelines aren't buried underground but rin about the ground.
This is an underground natural gas pipeline. Not an oil pipeline at all. I don't know where Nexus is getting his info from; probably a totally different project. And both oil and natural gas pipelines can be buried or aboveground.
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