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This proposed project could change the character of Metuchen, and very little is being said about it.
Did you know that a multi-rentable development and new multi-story residense is being planned where the location of the current Pearl Street parking lot? This would add 300 to 350 new units (from 1 to 3 bedroom, mostly being 2 br).
The plan is to put this up as a luxory building with units renting in the $2000 range. Supposedly they will attract people in their 20 and 30 somethings that do not have families.
Today, on a billboard in one of the cards on a train on NJ Transit I saw a sign for a similar residential luxory complex in Secausus. The marketing focus was "How will you spend your free time?" It goes on that NYC is less than 20 minutes away and you can save an average of 25 minutes each way (50 minutes a day - 10 hours a year). They were selling the short distance to NYC. What would be the selling point of these condos to the 20 and 30 something crowd? Anyway, this made me start thinking and figured I would make a post here to voice some public opinion, and get some feedback from fellow Metuchenites.
Last month they had a little info session at the senior center. Supposedly, the only reason they had that was because some influential people in the community found out about the proposed plans and had then do something about it. I did attend.
The way it looked to me was that it was a done deal. They had two real estate developers that already had spent a lot of money on their proposals and big 36x24 inch color pictures and diagrams, and there was even a table where you could choose which of the designs you like the best (by "voting" with little stickers). It was very dissapointing that the place was not more crowded and that the "younger" families of Metuchen were not well represented. I went in with an open mind (okay, I did not like what I read from the small article in the local paper, but I was willing to listen). One developer told us how good of an idea it was, then the other did the same. We did talk to a person from the housing authority, that was informative, but he was playing devil's advocate, and smartly could not provide his own opinion one way or another. The only place to "vote" whether this was a good idea or bad idea was in the way of two white boards - a "pro" and a "con" board - where you would write down your comments. By the time we left, the "con" board was overflowing with comments.
Unfortunately, for the proposed idea, instead of waling out of there with some good feelings towards this idea, I came away with many more reasons why this is not a good idea. Some are as follows:
1) Is there anything in this town that would attract 20 and 30 somethings without families? This is great town for young people with families, and people who's children have left the nest. What is a single 20 or 30 something going to do when they want to go party at 8 PM on a Thursday thru Saturday night (and way into the morning)?
2) What are they going to do with all the extra traffic in town (adding 1.2 cars per new unit)? Main street before, during, and after, rush hour is horrific. Adding abouter 350-400 cars is only going to make it much worse.
3) What about all of the children that will be living in these new units. Yeah, right, if they think we are going to believe that only single people will be moving in? We are going to have to pay for extra teachers, and probably need a new school building -- if you have not heard, in the Cambell School, they had to convert the music room (and maybe the art room) into classrooms because they did not have enough room for the kids (the music teacher now goes from class to class with her stuff on a cart). [FYI - more teachers, or building extra buildings will increase our property taxes).
4) If there are more people, wouldn't there also be a need to hire additional police officers, firemen, sanitation workers, etc.? [once again, it will come out of our higher property taxes]
5) How about the inconvenience to the residents that currently park at Pearl street? First, having to find parking or take some shuttle, etc. while the new parking lot is being built (as well as the extra time), the parking lot generally being further than it currently is located, the additional time to get into and out of the multi-level lot, and most probably the higher fees to pay for this new inconvenient parking lot?
6) The change in character from a small-town to a more congested small city. This will affect the general opinion of the town, causing a decrease in property values across Metuchen. We will be losing that small-town charm that draws people to live here.
7) There are no benefits to current Metuchen residents. I can see increase in revenues to the stores on Main Street, but the additional taxes to pay for teachers, police, sanitation, and all of the extra maintenance that goes with increasing the population of this town, minus all of the inconvenience, just do not add up.
8) How about some sort of compromise -- this seems to be go big or go nothing at all. Has anyone thought of something that is somewhere in-between?
9) Other reasons.
Let me hear what you think. Also let's try to get the traffic authority and whatever other people in the Metuchen government to give us some more information about what is going on. Personally, I think it is already a done deal, and that info night was just a little treat to appease the masses -- but if not, we should know what is going on and have it posted publicly -- such as on the Metuchen website or in the Metuchen newspaper (both of which are silent).
1) All the little shops along Main Street and in the Downtown will attract the younger Generations...., theres also a train station with service 22hrs a day to NYC , New Brunswick and Newark , so even though its a quiet little town people will still move there because of the train station...which connects them to the outside world.
2) TOD rarely adds to the congestion , it uses the existing infrastructure. And TOD encourages Transit or Alt Transport use over Car use....so you can build a huge TOD but you won't get the added congestion. However your sidewalks will need to be widened to handle all the growth....
3) Its usually single and childless couples who buy these apartments and condos , I call them commuter couples.... All they do is work , eat , sleep , work...etc....no time for children. They do invest in the local economies.... The Revenue this project and others like it will bring will probably reduce the Property taxes by a small to medium sized amount.
4) More people doesn't mean higher taxes , it often means lower taxes....alot of the Larger towns in this state have lower taxes then the smaller towns....
5) I honestly don't see any issues with replacing a lot with a Garage which has a smaller footprint and can hold more. I find large swaths of asphalt unattractive and in the summer it causes a heat island to form over Metuchen.
6) I doubt it would change the character of Metuchen , you already have 3 TOD's in the town and this site is smaller then the other ones... You would still have your small town vibe , the residential areas aren't the ones being developed , its your downtown. Developments like this should be in Downtown.
7) There are alot of benefits to the residents , less heat island issues in the summer , more revenue to local businesses , Property values will go up due to Downtown investment , Property taxes will go down due to the development , and Quality of life in the Downtown area will improve. It lags at the moment...you will also be placed on the map for future home buyers , the Younger generations will take notice and so will the older generations...
8) There are larger TOD's then this , which is small. Edison ,the Amboys and West Windsor have huge TOD plans....
I'm not a Metuchen resident, but I agree with Nexis for the most part. Metuchen could do so much more with those giant surface parking lots by turning them into something that works for Metuchen.
It's true that additional residents require additional services, but the additional residents will also be contributing additional revenues to the borough by paying taxes themselves. And if most of the new residents don't have children, then they'll be contributing more than their fair share for the rest of town.
An additional 350 cars is something to consider if the streets around the development are already congested. Hopefully, if this development is catering to Manhattan commuters, most of those cars will be parked in the garage during "rush hour."
FWIW, talk of redeveloping those parking lots in Metuchen is not new. I seem to recall NJTransit was working with the borough and looking into developing a parking deck there sometime around 2005.
No, my information is NOT WRONG - it just does not agree with what you want to believe
1) All the little shops along Main Street and in the Downtown will attract the younger Generations...., theres also a train station with service 22hrs a day to NYC , New Brunswick and Newark , so even though its a quiet little town people will still move there because of the train station...which connects them to the outside world.
--> There are some very nice restaurants and stores along Main Street that appeal to all ages, but there are also similar downtown areas in towns closer to NYC. However, what is there to appeal directly to the 20-30 somthings? What night life is there? If they have to commute 50+ minutes to go to NYC to have nightlife, then why are they willing to live in Metuchen, instead of finding someplace much closer to the city? As mentioned above, the marketing for a similar complex to the one that is proposed is that it is less than 20 minutes from NYC -- what will our promotion be -- "You may be 50 minutes from NYC, but can be in Trenton in minutes" [No disrespect for Trenton, but it, or any city in the world is like NYC.]
--> No one is arguing that this town is not "commutable" -- myself and many other people have moved here because it has that train in the middle of this town. It is just that if someone is able to purchase the same unit in a luxury complex 30 minutes closer to NYC, why do so? It just does not make any sense.
2) TOD rarely adds to the congestion, it uses the existing infrastructure. And TOD encourages Transit or Alt Transport use over Car use....so you can build a huge TOD but you won't get the added congestion. However your sidewalks will need to be widened to handle all the growth....
--> TOD? Not being a builder/developer, or one of the parties that has a stake in this succeeding, I had to look up what TOD stands for -- and I would gather a guess that it is "Transit Oriented Development" My comments below will be based on this definition.
--> You use the word "rarely" - so according to your own statement, there are times when such events would occur - such as suggestion. Also, what data do you have to back up this statement? Independent data, or data provided by the builders/developers that can manipulate statistics for their own bias?
--> Based on real-life experience, when has any type of construction, and especially one of this size, not cause congestion? Besides the fact that you have to misplace the cars that are currently parking there, blocking off streets, etc.? I am sure that the developers would like to believe that it will not have any impact, but that is obviously not true -- unless the construction is occurring in a vacuum somewhere in the middle of the dessert.
--> And how about parking on Main Street - not always easy to get a spot. Many times I have to park in the parking lot -- and with this proposal, it will be moved closer away. This may also cause people from nearby towns to avoid coming to Metuchen downtown due to the congestion.
--> Another reality, although we all like to be "green" -- there are many times in our lives, especially those with young children, and those that are elderly, that "alternate" means of transportation are not an option. Luckily we had a mild winter, this year. However, the year before was brutal. Are you going to come by on your bicycle during after a snowstorm and pick up me and my family - but us on your handlebars -- and drive us to our destinations (schools, YMCA, train, etc?). I do admit I will walk when it is nice out and I do not have to drive my kids anywhere, but that is not the reality of the situation -- myself, and many others need to use our normal form of transportation.
--> Once this place is built, and you have 350+ more cars in town, how can you tell me that it will not cause any traffic or additional congestion? Although people MAY purchase these units because it is close to the train station, each unit will have to have at least one car each -- there are many things that one would need to drive to that are not close-by. Have you ever driven across town (North/South) during and around rush hour ? It can literally take 12-15 minutes from Middlesex Avenue to Amboy Avenue by car.
3) Its usually single and childless couples who buy these apartments and condos , I call them commuter couples.... All they do is work , eat , sleep , work...etc....no time for children. They do invest in the local economies.... The Revenue this project and others like it will bring will probably reduce the Property taxes by a small to medium sized amount.
--> Is there any data backing up the fact that it is single and childless couples? Also, which are the apartments (we are talking rentals here) that this data is taken from? Metuchen is a community that attracts families -- is the data taken from units in similar communities?
--> I now many people that are single/childless and I am aware of some of the choices in locations in which they live. Many desire to live close to NYC (although most do work there, some also want to be closer to "where the action is"). Many have opted to live in places like Jersey City, Brooklyn (Brooklyn Heights is still popular, but DUMBO is also a hot spot - both close and less than $2 to get to/from NYC) -- others have decided to live in Queens, for a 20-25 minute commute, but still the same $2 -- and local hot spots for singles & childless couples). [For those that do not know, it is $11 each way from Metuchen to NYC via Jersey Transit]
--> Once again, I am not denying that if you have a larger concentration of people in an area, the local economy - at least the store owners will have a larger potential customer base. However, I do not see this $ coming back to the Metuchen residents.
--> I grew up in an apartment building. In fact a 2 bedroom and 4 people lived there. I have many friends with families of 5 that lived in 2 bedroom apartments. I know you wish that only people without kids will rent these apartments, but Metuchen being such a family friendly town, and based on my own apartment dwelling experience, I can see MOST of these units going to couples with families. FYI - the billboard for the similar complexes in Secaucus includes a picture of a family. Will an agent be able to say, Dogs & cats are okay, but no kids?
4) More people doesn't mean higher taxes , it often means lower taxes....a lot of the Larger towns in this state have lower taxes then the smaller towns....
--> More people translates to more services. Someone is going to have to pay for these services. Since these newcomers are renting, they do not pay property tax. Taxes can also be based on the quality of life in the town along with the commercial industry. For instance, Paramus has lower taxes because of the mall and other commercial complexes. This is not the same type of town as Paramus. Higher taxes can also be synonymous with a better education system and municipal services. Trust me, when we were looking for a house, we were well aware of the taxes for each town and what it brings to the particular town.
5) I honestly don't see any issues with replacing a lot with a Garage which has a smaller footprint and can hold more. I find large swaths of asphalt unattractive and in the summer it causes a heat island to form over Metuchen.
--> A mere swap of the lot with a nice garage does have its merits, if done right. But, that option is not on the table. From what I understand (and I could be wrong about this) is that it is an ALL or NOTHING deal.
6) I doubt it would change the character of Metuchen, you already have 3 TOD's in the town and this site is smaller than the other ones... You would still have your small town vibe , the residential areas aren't the ones being developed , its your downtown. Developments like this should be in Downtown.
--> This is not a point one can really argue - everyone will have thier own opinion on the character & vibe. It may not change the character according to some, but to me, it will.
7) There are alot of benefits to the residents, less heat island issues in the summer , more revenue to local businesses , Property values will go up due to Downtown investment , Property taxes will go down due to the development , and Quality of life in the Downtown area will improve. It lags at the moment...you will also be placed on the map for future home buyers , the Younger generations will take notice and so will the older generations...
--> Is this really big enough to create a heat island issue -- and if so, wouldn't simply replacing the current surface of the parking lot with a less conducive material fix this issue?
--> The local businesses, as stated twice above, would increase. Unfortunately most residents do not own a local business. Also will there be a decrease in business from nearby towns since the downtown area will be so congested?
--> I would really like to see your numbers where you come to the conclusion that our property taxes will go down. As mentioned above, there will be revenue increased by the units, but there will be a number of expenses that will negate any benefit (notwithstanding the inconveniences causes by the development).
8) There are larger TOD's then this , which is small. Edison ,the Amboys and West Windsor have huge TOD plans....
--> Apples and oranges. Places like Edison (30.63 sq miles) are much, much, much large than Metuchen, a complex like this one proposed can be built in these towns and be hidden away. In a small town such as Metuchen (2.66 sq miles) it IS a big TOD.
As long as the town is safe , nice , has a dense walkable downtown it will attract the younger generations who are moving from the exurbs into the Urbanized Suburbs like Metuchen or Rahway. Morristown which is 70 mins by train from NYC has done very well with attracting the younger generation so has Red Bank , and Poughkeepsie...it really doesn't matter how long it takes to get to NYC.
I wasn't arguing the town wasn't a commuter town. There are alot of commuters in this region who commute for over 50 mins....it doesn't really matter the commute length. Some of my friends work on Wall Street and make over 100k ,but live over 80 mins away. A 2k unit would attract those wall street workers who don't want to live in a city but prefer a walkable town...
I document alot of TOD projects in this region , and they rarely add to the congestion because most people in these developments rarely drive. If they do its just to the Grocery Store or out of town. Otherwise they walk around the town , TOD makes this easier to do and encourages it....
This sized TOD is small , it may appear big because of Metuchen's size , but for NJ standards its tiny so very little impact will be felt by the residents. There are some TOD's planned in this state that are 5 SQ mi big...
Since this a TOD site next to the tracks and near the station , why would a snowstorm even matter. People are traveling from point A to Point B....as for the Elderly driving after a snowstorm..that gives me alot of concern....
Yes you might have 350 more cars , in reality you'll probably only get 120-160 cars. Most people who move into TOD sites do not own cars....they usually own bikes....if they do have cars there storage cars only used once a week and not daily.
Most TOD's attract commuter couples and single people which is what there built for...if you visit any TOD in neighboring towns like Rahway or South Amboy you'll notice this. Not everyone who is childless wants to live in a city , some like ive said above prefer towns like Morristown or Poughkeepsie or Rahway or the Amboys... Towns like this are growing.....by the end of the decade you can add Edison , Kearny , Asbury Park and Long Beach to the list. The Commuter Cost doesn't really affect people , as long as the town is good. You will see the return investment to Metuchen in time , it takes 5 to 10 years but the town grows and has a stronger business community.
FYI - The Sentinel had an article about the parking lot. I am glad that it is getting some face time in the local news. One thing I learned is that there will about 200- 250 units (which is a lot better than the 350 originally mentioned to me). They also mentioned another meeting in which this was discussed, which I never knew about (which I may have attended if I did). However, the way they reported on the whole thing is that it is basically a done deal, and whatever input we gave will be taken under advisement. [Another note -- when talking to someone from the Traffic Authority and separately from one of the developers, they said that they estimated 1.2 parking spots being created for every unit). When it comes to politics and money I am a skeptic -- politicians may not lie, but they will leave out facts to meet their own needs, and people that tend to make a lot of money such as the builders/developers tend to bend the "truth" to their own liking.
I have been talking to a lot of my neighbors and a great majority have expressed a number of negative comments towards this project (unfortunately to me and not to the powers that be). Some cite my reasons above, and some have other reasons for not wanting this to occur. Since I have moved into Metuchen, I have not been involved with the politics here -- no time right now (it took me a week to find time to get come back and respond in this thread), but maybe I am going to need to keep my ear tuned towards City Hall a bit more.
If everything works out as those pushing for this project has expressed, that would be great -- and since it is going to happen, I hope it works out. However, from where I am standing, I see myself being both inconvenienced and paying for this somehow while others get the benefit.
Lexis4Nexis - thank you for your thoughtful responses and counter arguments. You have provided an intelligent voice as always. However, I would love to hear from other Metuchen residents as to their thoughts. . . .
1) Is there anything in this town that would attract 20 and 30 somethings without families? This is great town for young people with families, and people who's children have left the nest. What is a single 20 or 30 something going to do when they want to go party at 8 PM on a Thursday thru Saturday night (and way into the morning)?
Not all 20-30 something people without kids party all the time. Not all of them are single. I doubt Metuchen would attract the party-hearty crowd.
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2) What are they going to do with all the extra traffic in town (adding 1.2 cars per new unit)? Main street before, during, and after, rush hour is horrific. Adding abouter 350-400 cars is only going to make it much worse.
Presumably the big draw of this place will be the New Jersey Transit commute to Manhattan. So I wouldn't expect much in the way of extra cars during rush hour.
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3) What about all of the children that will be living in these new units. Yeah, right, if they think we are going to believe that only single people will be moving in? We are going to have to pay for extra teachers, and probably need a new school building -- if you have not heard, in the Cambell School, they had to convert the music room (and maybe the art room) into classrooms because they did not have enough room for the kids (the music teacher now goes from class to class with her stuff on a cart). [FYI - more teachers, or building extra buildings will increase our property taxes).
If your town is doing it right, taxes on the building will raise more than enough revenue to pay for any extra services needed.
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4) If there are more people, wouldn't there also be a need to hire additional police officers, firemen, sanitation workers, etc.? [once again, it will come out of our higher property taxes]
Ditto here.
As for parking, I would hope there would be a multi-level structure to replace the parking lot. There isn't enough parking at NJT lots in general.
Interesting -- I have been speaking to many of my neighbors and other residents I know in Metuchen. Except for one person that was trying to be a devil's advocate, everyone I spoke to was against the idea for this project. Then again, the people I have spoken to are not the store owners, politicians, or developers that may benefit from this.
I find it funny that there is an advertisement for the Secaucus XChange posted on the walls of the Metuchen train station (which is very much like what they want to do here).
Also, it has been very quiet regarding this -- does anyone out there have any information on the status of this project or anything that is going on?
I find it funny that there is an advertisement for the Secaucus XChange posted on the walls of the Metuchen train station (which is very much like what they want to do here).
Also, it has been very quiet regarding this -- does anyone out there have any information on the status of this project or anything that is going on?
Xchange isn't what Metuchen is getting ,at least not that size. Something smaller , Metuchen isn't high on the development list like neighboring towns like Edison , Rahway or New Brunswick...
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