Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-07-2012, 09:13 PM
 
1,446 posts, read 4,599,650 times
Reputation: 991

Advertisements

It looks like the nation's War on Drugs continues to be a miserable failure. Here in NJ, heroin is spreading rapidly throughout our state, even in some of the most unlikely of places. The Shore Counties and Sussex County have seen significant increases in the heroin treatment (and use) rates in the past five years. So obviously, narcotics is not just an inner-city problem like some ignorant people tend to think. Billions and billions of dollars spent, record numbers of people incarcerated, numerous lives ruined...for what?! Maybe an expansion of the drug war into small white-bread towns will change this country's policies towards drugs; however, I am skeptical that any lessons will be learned for a long time. I am sorry that I have posted such a morbid (but important) topic in here today, but seeing articles like this just gets to me.

Heroin use among young in N.J. is up, and in more suburban areas | NJ.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-07-2012, 09:43 PM
 
198 posts, read 469,030 times
Reputation: 178
It's not that surprising, really. The delivery thing is surprisingly in how obvious it should have been, I don't know how drug dealers didn't think of it sooner. Generally there's some person(s) buying wholesale from Paterson/etc., either having it delivered or picking it up then bringing it back to town. Saves people from having to go into bad neighborhood, and ads a familiar face to the dealer. Maybe someone from school's older brother. Plenty of suburban kids with more allowance money than sense. I think that's what the big thing is.

In high school I hung out with a bunch of people who did drugs. The biggest common denominator among that group were parents who would throw their middle school and/or high school aged kids $20 for the weekend without much more than a "call me if/when you need me for a ride". Cell phones cut down on parents communicating directly with other parents, which makes it easier for kids to lie and even easier for parents to lie to themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2012, 11:09 PM
 
1,221 posts, read 2,112,985 times
Reputation: 1766
Of course use is way up. They just made painkillers way tougher to get, the addicts can't afford it anymore, and turn to the next thing they can afford, which is Heroin.

More interesting would be if use continues to rise once the "wave" of people who switched to it ends in the next year or two. I'm thinking not, because Heroin has a major stigma to people who aren't already desperate addicts, it's much tougher to convince someone to inject something than to do other sorts of drugs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2012, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,634 posts, read 84,895,898 times
Reputation: 115185
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
Of course use is way up. They just made painkillers way tougher to get, the addicts can't afford it anymore, and turn to the next thing they can afford, which is Heroin.

More interesting would be if use continues to rise once the "wave" of people who switched to it ends in the next year or two. I'm thinking not, because Heroin has a major stigma to people who aren't already desperate addicts, it's much tougher to convince someone to inject something than to do other sorts of drugs.

I think the problem with heroin is that it's so much more pure these days that it's possible to use it by snorting, and so you don't have to inject it--at least not at first. Eventually you will because you need to get high faster and more intensely.

Heroin's been in the suburbs for a good long time already, it's just more prevalent now. My brother used heroin intravenously back in the late 70s. He was from a nice NW Bergen County town, and he started using with his girlfriend, whom he met when he was in a bowling league and she worked at the bowling alley, also in a nice Bergen County town. He was addicted within weeks, went downhill very quickly, and continued to use for about the next year and a half when he was busted for breaking and entering and stealing jewelry and cash from houses to support his habit. The girlfriend immediately dumped him because that was her cash source, and the local cops advised my brother to get into a program immediately to detox and stop using and therefore end up on probation rather than get jail time. He did all that and never used again.

This was around the time AIDS was starting to hit, so he was tested and he was negative. Unfortunately, no one ever suggested he get tested for Hepatitis C. The virus quietly destroyed his liver for the next 25 years and by the time it was discovered, it was too late. He died at the age of 51 from using an infected needle a quarter of a century earlier. His old girlfriend had OD'd and died years earlier.

I know a few other people who were using heroin back in that time, all from nice Bergen County burbs. Some are still alive. Some are not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2012, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Boonton, NJ
40 posts, read 140,895 times
Reputation: 29
Heroin and the drug war in general is a very sad situation in NJ now. It has always been around in the suburbs. It was never in the spotlight like it is today though. I saw a fair share of people die from overdoses or ruin their lives when I was in high school in the town I grew up in and surrounding areas. It was always around then and you are talking late 90's here. Kids from Denville, Mountain Lakes, Randolph, Parsippany, Mendham, Roxbury and Rockaway. It was very big in morris county then and in reality it still is. It wasn't just "troubled" or "druggie" kids who where doing it. You had football players, cheerleaders, band members all stereotypes of kids who were dabbling in it. Some were addicts, some were just kids who wanted to get high on the weekend while they partied. Some just wanted to know what the hype was about. Thank god some kids knew better than to even travel down that path. Don't get me wrong I did my share of experimenting in high school and college. But when you have to pick your older cousin up in newark, because he went to buy drugs at prince street projects and got carjacked at gunpoint, you say to yourself one its time to grow up and two I should be smart enough to know going down this path is a bad idea.

It was always brushed under the table though, people didn't want to admit that their kids in the suburbs where doing harder things than smoking pot, getting drunk and getting laid on the weekends. Truth is, kids where taking their parents money and cars and heading down to central ave and south orange ave and picking up heroin and cocaine. If they couldn't do that, they where taking prescription painkillers. It wasn't until the news starting talking more about the situation, that parents wised up and started hiding or locking up their prescriptions. I'm sure tons of parents wanted to blame inner city dealers in places like Newark and East Orange for the problem, but truth is, kids from the suburbs were some of these dealers best customers. It is a simple supply and demand thing. Tons of these kids have no clue how lucky they were that they didn't get mugged, carjacked or shot while scoring drugs.

I did noticed it took years before it really became a big problem in more rural places like sussex and warren county. I don't pay much attention to south or central NJ so I can't speak of the situation down there. But regardless, too many lives are being and have been ruined because of it. I would love to see some change for the better for once.

Last edited by typeslone; 10-08-2012 at 01:23 PM.. Reason: added stuff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2012, 06:03 AM
 
Location: The Beautiful Pocono Mountains
5,450 posts, read 8,767,203 times
Reputation: 3002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I think the problem with heroin is that it's so much more pure these days that it's possible to use it by snorting, and so you don't have to inject it--at least not at first. Eventually you will because you need to get high faster and more intensely.

Heroin's been in the suburbs for a good long time already, it's just more prevalent now. My brother used heroin intravenously back in the late 70s. He was from a nice NW Bergen County town, and he started using with his girlfriend, whom he met when he was in a bowling league and she worked at the bowling alley, also in a nice Bergen County town. He was addicted within weeks, went downhill very quickly, and continued to use for about the next year and a half when he was busted for breaking and entering and stealing jewelry and cash from houses to support his habit. The girlfriend immediately dumped him because that was her cash source, and the local cops advised my brother to get into a program immediately to detox and stop using and therefore end up on probation rather than get jail time. He did all that and never used again.

This was around the time AIDS was starting to hit, so he was tested and he was negative. Unfortunately, no one ever suggested he get tested for Hepatitis C. The virus quietly destroyed his liver for the next 25 years and by the time it was discovered, it was too late. He died at the age of 51 from using an infected needle a quarter of a century earlier. His old girlfriend had OD'd and died years earlier.

I know a few other people who were using heroin back in that time, all from nice Bergen County burbs. Some are still alive. Some are not.
I am so sorry for your loss.

That is such a sad story and unfortunately very common for the time period.

I know there are people out there that feel all drugs should be legal. I do feel marijuana should be legal, but not heroin, meth, or cocaine. Too easy to overdose on those and far too common. My feelings about this revolve around children. If an adult uses, that is certainly their business, however, the children see it and too often will see an overdose.
There is no risk of that with marijuana.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2012, 11:12 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,715,753 times
Reputation: 14622
I don't want to try to place blame, but I have to look at the parents who many times are far too quick to stuff their heads in the sand and ignore what is going on and even financially support their kids "soft" drug/alcohol habits. There seems to be a marked difference in the parenting style of kids that are in the last half of the "Millenial" generation, those born from say 1990-2003. I graduated school in 1998 and yes, there were drugs in our school. A few people smoked pot, plenty more drank at parties. However, harder drugs were pretty rare and none of it was done in view of parents.

These days I have seen plenty of kids whose parents are either completely self-absorbed so that they don't care other then to rush in and defend their kid whenever anything happens; or the even worse ones, the ones who take the "they are going to do it anyway" approach and condone and even support the behavior. I have neighbors with older kids and some of the things I have seen out on the social networks is ridiculous. A 15 year old inviting people to a house party on Twitter where alcohol will be served and "smoking/pills" is cool, but nothing else. The shocking part, he openly admitted that "my mom is cool with it as long as we keep it under 25 kids". I couldn't imagine my parents EVER being cool with me inviting 25 kids over to my house and serving them alcohol and letting them use recreational drugs.

When you see Facebook photos of a group of 14-16 year olds at a "back to school" party and they are posing with $750 worth of alcohol, that isn't crap that they snuck out of their parents houses, that was purposefully bought for them. A coworker of mine went to pick up his son from a party at a friends house. He walked into the backyard to find the friends PARENTS smoking pot with several of the kids and they acted like it was no big deal.

Is it any surprise that suburban teens and young adults are becoming hardcore addicts when so many of them were raised by parents who didn't give a crap and handed them $20 or $40 to "party" so long as they left them alone on the weekend? Even worse, what about the ones who were raised where the parents not only didn't care, but actually condoned the behavior or provided the drugs? These are the same clowns sitting in courts and posting bail telling everyone who will listen that their "Johnny would NEVER do such a thing".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2012, 11:16 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,705,123 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I don't want to try to place blame, but I have to look at the parents who many times are far too quick to stuff their heads in the sand and ignore what is going on and even financially support their kids "soft" drug/alcohol habits. There seems to be a marked difference in the parenting style of kids that are in the last half of the "Millenial" generation, those born from say 1990-2003. I graduated school in 1998 and yes, there were drugs in our school. A few people smoked pot, plenty more drank at parties. However, harder drugs were pretty rare and none of it was done in view of parents.

These days I have seen plenty of kids whose parents are either completely self-absorbed so that they don't care other then to rush in and defend their kid whenever anything happens; or the even worse ones, the ones who take the "they are going to do it anyway" approach and condone and even support the behavior. I have neighbors with older kids and some of the things I have seen out on the social networks is ridiculous. A 15 year old inviting people to a house party on Twitter where alcohol will be served and "smoking/pills" is cool, but nothing else. The shocking part, he openly admitted that "my mom is cool with it as long as we keep it under 25 kids". I couldn't imagine my parents EVER being cool with me inviting 25 kids over to my house and serving them alcohol and letting them use recreational drugs.

When you see Facebook photos of a group of 14-16 year olds at a "back to school" party and they are posing with $750 worth of alcohol, that isn't crap that they snuck out of their parents houses, that was purposefully bought for them. A coworker of mine went to pick up his son from a party at a friends house. He walked into the backyard to find the friends PARENTS smoking pot with several of the kids and they acted like it was no big deal.

Is it any surprise that suburban teens and young adults are becoming hardcore addicts when so many of them were raised by parents who didn't give a crap and handed them $20 or $40 to "party" so long as they left them alone on the weekend? Even worse, what about the ones who were raised where the parents not only didn't care, but actually condoned the behavior or provided the drugs? These are the same clowns sitting in courts and posting bail telling everyone who will listen that their "Johnny would NEVER do such a thing".
let me guess, your kids were born after 2003.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2012, 11:54 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,715,753 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
let me guess, your kids were born after 2003.
First one was born in 2004. I didn't mean for the date to be a hard cut-off. However, I do see a striking difference between parenting styles of SOME parents with kids whose youngest are currently 12+ versus people who have younger kids. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I am also not the only one who has noticed these trends. I'm a big fan of generational theory and there is a lot that can be said for the general attitudes/beliefs of parents raising todays teens then the parents who will be raising the next cohort of teens.

Taking all of that aside though, it is painfully obvious that these issues begin at home. Sure there are some parents that do everything right and their kid still manages to fall into the trap of drug addiction, but there are plenty that are too aloof or simply don't care to notice what is going on. I don't think we need to provide statistics on how rapidly the family structure deteriorated over the past couple of decades and is only starting to rebound.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 07:39 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 2,792,506 times
Reputation: 950
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
First one was born in 2004. I didn't mean for the date to be a hard cut-off. However, I do see a striking difference between parenting styles of SOME parents with kids whose youngest are currently 12+ versus people who have younger kids. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I am also not the only one who has noticed these trends. I'm a big fan of generational theory and there is a lot that can be said for the general attitudes/beliefs of parents raising todays teens then the parents who will be raising the next cohort of teens.

Taking all of that aside though, it is painfully obvious that these issues begin at home. Sure there are some parents that do everything right and their kid still manages to fall into the trap of drug addiction, but there are plenty that are too aloof or simply don't care to notice what is going on. I don't think we need to provide statistics on how rapidly the family structure deteriorated over the past couple of decades and is only starting to rebound.

LOL! This is funny because I agree with you 100% about permissive parenting and think it's crazy...but at the same time I think you are just naive because your 1st child is still young. I have kids that span both and nothing has changed. If anything it's worse. Well-off parents buy their kids everything (1st graders in UGGS and 99% middle schoolers with cellphones) and yep, have the attitude of "they're gonna do it anyway so have them drink under my roof", ensuring their kid host the cool party so they're popular. The parents actually pressure each other to "let go" and not be "overprotective". Everyone wants their kids to be popular. Bad enough the social pressures on kids, plus social media, but the parents add to it. Few parents are putting their foot down and slowing the social development which occurs much earlier now, and leads to risky behavior.

Great you are not this way and you are falling into a group that sees as you do. But I don't think there is any cutoff around 2003/04.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top