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We are in intentional economic free fall. Author: Obama
'Spending out of control' is what the governemnt has been up to since the 60s.
Galactic difference and not comparable.
You don't see the waste the Dems added on to the Sandy bill?
You are not outraged by this covert attempt by Dems to ride the waves of Sandy to spend money on random payback causes?
They take advantage of the Sandy victims to get tax money that would not be passed if proposed as stand alone items?
Oh goodie, it sounds like another conspiracy theory... please elaborate as to the motives and intentionas and the 'real' people behind the strategy.
Oh goodie, it sounds like another conspiracy theory... please elaborate as to the motives and intentionas and the 'real' people behind the strategy.
im not a conspiracy theorist type of guy, but i am thinking of an example where a politician sold us something while having something completely different in mind. i know you wont appreciate the example but its what comes to me first. when barack obama sold his health care plan and told everyone that they would be able to keep their insurance if they like it. but it seems clear that his plan was to basically eliminate employer health plans. we should be careful of what politicians really want, they are all liars and corrupt.
so whats your point? do you think we should adress the deficit or not?
My point is the blatant hypocrisy of people who said nothing while Bush and Cheney exploded the deficit with their tax cuts for millionaires, two unfunded wars and an unnecessary $800 billion Medicare drug program that was nothing more than a pay off to insurance companies and drug manufacturers because the Bush administration refused to include federal government bargaining rights on drug prices.
But to answer the rest of your question, yes, I do believe we should address the deficit. But we should address it sensibly by returning tax rates to where they were during the Clinton years when the economy was booming. The single largest driver of the deficit is the Bush tax cuts and this so-called "fiscal cliff" deal just made about 84% of those cuts permanent! That is NO way to address the deficit.
You'd think people would learn but obviously they don't. During the Great Depression, Keynesian economic principles of expansion prevailed at first and the nation began a slow recovery. At the first signs of recovery conservatives demanded austerity, insisting the government cut spending to address the deficit. The result was a "double dip" slide back into the Great Depression.
A healthy economy with high employment and workers spending their earnings is the only way to address the deficit. If you think austerity is the answer you need to look at Greece, Ireland and Spain for a few examples.
If you want an answer to the economic crisis Bush and Cheney put this nation in you need to look at how Iceland handled the banksters criminals demands.
But suddenly the same people who caused the Great Bush Recession are calling for austerity in an historically proven mistaken attempt to handle a deficit that didn't matter when Bush and Cheney were running it up to record levels. Now government is the spender of last resort, just as it was during the Great Depression, and those same people want to make the same mistakes all over again.
It has nothing to do with deficits and everything to do with cashing in on the economic crisis they created.
We are in intentional economic free fall. Author: Obama
'Spending out of control' is what the governemnt has been up to since the 60s.
Galactic difference and not comparable.
You don't see the waste the Dems added on to the Sandy bill?
You are not outraged by this covert attempt by Dems to ride the waves of Sandy to spend money on random payback causes?
They take advantage of the Sandy victims to get tax money that would not be passed if proposed as stand alone items?
Don't be ridiculous, Kracer. The authors of the economic free fall are George W Bush and Dick Cheney. Or don't you remember the first eight years of the new millennium?
And waste added to the Sandy bill? Have you any idea of the devastation in New Jersey and New York? These are two states that pay in far more than they receive back in federal funds, and part of that money goes to states that receive money for natural disasters far more often than NJ and NY.
Yet now when it's NJ and NY that need disaster assistance it's waste? Shame on you and the Republicans who are delaying aid to people desperately in need while they never hesitate to put their own hands out at every opportunity.
My point is the blatant hypocrisy of people who said nothing while Bush and Cheney exploded the deficit with their tax cuts for millionaires, two unfunded wars and an unnecessary $800 billion Medicare drug program that was nothing more than a pay off to insurance companies and drug manufacturers because the Bush administration refused to include federal government bargaining rights on drug prices.
But to answer the rest of your question, yes, I do believe we should address the deficit. But we should address it sensibly by returning tax rates to where they were during the Clinton years when the economy was booming. The single largest driver of the deficit is the Bush tax cuts and this so-called "fiscal cliff" deal just made about 84% of those cuts permanent! That is NO way to address the deficit.
You'd think people would learn but obviously they don't. During the Great Depression, Keynesian economic principles of expansion prevailed at first and the nation began a slow recovery. At the first signs of recovery conservatives demanded austerity, insisting the government cut spending to address the deficit. The result was a "double dip" slide back into the Great Depression.
A healthy economy with high employment and workers spending their earnings is the only way to address the deficit. If you think austerity is the answer you need to look at Greece, Ireland and Spain for a few examples.
If you want an answer to the economic crisis Bush and Cheney put this nation in you need to look at how Iceland handled the banksters criminals demands.
But suddenly the same people who caused the Great Bush Recession are calling for austerity in an historically proven mistaken attempt to handle a deficit that didn't matter when Bush and Cheney were running it up to record levels. Now government is the spender of last resort, just as it was during the Great Depression, and those same people want to make the same mistakes all over again.
It has nothing to do with deficits and everything to do with cashing in on the economic crisis they created.
That's my point.
You have a fundamentally flawed understanding of economics, and allow your politics and especially your emotions to run roughshod over logic and reality, not to mention history. However, reality does not bend to emotionalism and irrationalism, no matter how loudly or repeatedly it is expressed. Your obvious contempt for certain specific Republicans you have peculiarly isolated fails to address the point that Clinton, Bush, and indeed Kennedy, Nixon, Roosevelt and Herbert Hoover, were all one and the same person philosophically. It is the philosophy of altruism-collectivism-statism that is corrupt. And that philosophy is present in all our leaders. The Republican or Democrat label no longer has any meaning, if it ever did.
You have a fundamentally flawed understanding of economics, and allow your politics and especially your emotions to run roughshod over logic and reality, not to mention history. However, reality does not bend to emotionalism and irrationalism, no matter how loudly or repeatedly it is expressed. Your obvious contempt for certain specific Republicans you have peculiarly isolated fails to address the point that Clinton, Bush, and indeed Kennedy, Nixon, Roosevelt and Herbert Hoover, were all one and the same person philosophically. It is the philosophy of altruism-collectivism-statism that is corrupt. And that philosophy is present in all our leaders. The Republican or Democrat label no longer has any meaning, if it ever did.
First off, with all due respect, what a load of hooey.
I have a good understanding of economics and it is based in and proven by history. When wealth is spread among the many the economy thrives. When wealth is concentrated among the few the economy fails, as proven during the Great Depression and the Great Bush Depression, both economic collapses that just happened to coincide with the greatest concentrations of wealth in the fewest hands.
Do you claim to have a good understanding of economics? Yet you lump FDR in with Hoover and Clinton with Bush? Hoover whose policies of austerity deepened the Great Depression and FDR whose policies began to lift America out of it until conservatives in his own administration once again called for austerity that dropped the nation back into depression? And Clinton whose policies led to the largest increase in jobs in history, a balanced federal budget and a surplus that had the nation on the way to actually paying off the national debt until Bush was appointed president by the USSC and immediately used his position to empty the Treasury surplus into his contributors' pockets through implementing tax cuts that are still to this day the largest component of the deficit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
It is the philosophy of altruism-collectivism-statism that is corrupt. And that philosophy is present in all our leaders.
Let me guess, you read "Atlas Shrugged", and you actually believed it. Anti-social thinking praised as economics. LOLOL
Did you know that Ayn Rand accepted those evil, altruistic, collectivist, statist benefits of Social Security and Medicaid?
As with much of the psychopath, misanthrope, anti-social crowd, it's OK for them but not for others. Just like the Republicans in the US House of Representatives from states that regularly receive major disaster aid but who are now blocking Hurricane Sandy aid to NJ and NY -- two states that pay in far more than they receive back in federal dollars while those other states whose legislators are denying the aid benefit from the "corrupt" "altruism-collectivism-statism" which they and you so hypocritically eschew when it isn't for their benefit -- just like the psycopath, misanthrope, Ayn Rand.
First off, with all due respect, what a load of hooey.
I have a good understanding of economics and it is based in and proven by history. When wealth is spread among the many the economy thrives. When wealth is concentrated among the few the economy fails, as proven during the Great Depression and the Great Bush Depression, both economic collapses that just happened to coincide with the greatest concentrations of wealth in the fewest hands.
Do you claim to have a good understanding of economics? Yet you lump FDR in with Hoover and Clinton with Bush? Hoover whose policies of austerity deepened the Great Depression and FDR whose policies began to lift America out of it until conservatives in his own administration once again called for austerity that dropped the nation back into depression? And Clinton whose policies led to the largest increase in jobs in history, a balanced federal budget and a surplus that had the nation on the way to actually paying off the national debt until Bush was appointed president by the USSC and immediately used his position to empty the Treasury surplus into his contributors' pockets through implementing tax cuts that are still to this day the largest component of the deficit?
Let me guess, you read "Atlas Shrugged", and you actually believed it. Anti-social thinking praised as economics. LOLOL
Did you know that Ayn Rand accepted those evil, altruistic, collectivist, statist benefits of Social Security and Medicaid?
As with much of the psychopath, misanthrope, anti-social crowd, it's OK for them but not for others. Just like the Republicans in the US House of Representatives from states that regularly receive major disaster aid but who are now blocking Hurricane Sandy aid to NJ and NY -- two states that pay in far more than they receive back in federal dollars while those other states whose legislators are denying the aid benefit from the "corrupt" "altruism-collectivism-statism" which they and you so hypocritically eschew when it isn't for their benefit -- just like the psycopath, misanthrope, Ayn Rand.
I can't rep you again yet, but thank you, and glad you joined the forum!
and here I tuned in for an update on rebuilding work due to Sandy, only to find a not so polite political debate going on. What has Ayn Rand or Social Security to do with Sandy?!
and here I tuned in for an update on rebuilding work due to Sandy, only to find a not so polite political debate going on. What has Ayn Rand or Social Security to do with Sandy?!
After 82 pages of discussion,a few tangents are to be expected.
Feel free to kick-start your worthy interest here or in a new topic.
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