Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why do people who cannot make a logical counter-argument always want to make it personal? That is a debating leak. Stick to the point peoples. And if you want to put me on your ignore list, just do it.
Why do you choose to take it personally? There was no attack in my post. I just thought your prior post perfectly encapsulates your thinking; and it would make it simpler to interpret any of your other posts with that post as background.
As for debating... well, that dissolves once one party strays too far from facts and substitutes philosophy/opinion/wishes for fact or history.
Why do you choose to take it personally? There was no attack in my post. I just thought your prior post perfectly encapsulates your thinking; and it would make it simpler to interpret any of your other posts with that post as background.
As for debating... well, that dissolves once one party strays too far from facts and substitutes philosophy/opinion/wishes for fact or history.
Not you necessarily, this was more of a thread/forum observation.
And don't sell philosophy short. Right-to-work is politics, which is a branch of philosophy. One can't argue for it or against it without taking a philosophical position.
Want me to post the GM workers who sit outside and drink all day while getting paid?
Your living in the past thirty years ago.
Quote:
Since 2007, the United Auto Workers has agreed to let automakers hire new workers who forgo traditional retiree health care, equal pay for equal work, job security and pensions in exchange for jobs that would have gone to Mexico or Asia. About 13 percent of GM, Ford Motor Co. (F) and Chrysler Group LLC hourly workers, or 15,155 employees, now are entry level.
The union’s concessions were inconceivable -- and easily rejected by labor leaders -- just a few years before. Now, as many as half the workers at the Michigan factory assembling Sonic and Verano sub-compact cars make less than the $19.10 hourly average U.S. manufacturing wage and lack traditional union retiree benefits.
Nothing like leaning on a unsubstantiated stereotype. Paying the idiotic trades who can't hammer a nail in straight $75 an hour is the real theft. Non-union and the biggest thieves going. decent ones are far and few between. They depend on the requirement for licensing to keep the numbers low. Do away with all those licenses and let the public hire on competency.
Wow, looks like RE agents aren't exempt either..
Quote:
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif. – Aug. 16, 2012 – J.D. Power and Associates released its fifth annual homebuyer and seller satisfaction study. According to the market research and forecast company, buyer satisfaction with agents and companies dropped to its lowest level since reporting began.
Quote:
Cmon man, for every one corrupt CEO i can give you thousand examples of Union corruption/thuggery
So you want to compare a relatively small group against millions? A raw number? That's really an accurate statistical analysis. Why not compare percentages? Then you numbers begin to sag a bit.
Reading through this I am amazed that most of the "anti" arguments seem to be focused on an idea of what unions are that hasn't existed in this country for well over 70 years. Second, they are focused on the idea of a class and section of workers that are currently an incredibly small percentage of the total workforce and not even representative of the majority of what middleclass workers are. Third, they are focusing on "bad companies" that seemingly "exploit" workers, but they have no explanation as to why every attempt to unionize places like Wal*Mart has failed miserably, perhps it's because the people protesting and pushing for organization aren't actually Wal*Mart employees, but union organizers. Fourth, they continually ignore the fact that the majority of unions in this country and certainly the strong unions in this country are not private sector, but public sector. The people protesting in Michigan outside of Teamster and UAW shills are teachers and other public sector union employees.
I have yet to hear a valid argument that would actually impact any private sector unions as to why "right-to-work" is so bad. The major trade unions will still exist, but then again these are a small portion of the labor force. The larger unions like Teamsters, UAW, CWA, etc. will be largely unimpacted except that they may find themselves needing to actually work for the interests of their members. The only section of the union workforce that will be really impacted is the public sector unions where you have a large portion of well paid employees that don't want union representation, in particular teachers. Given all of the other protectionest union laws on the books aimed at the private sector (non-union contractors can't touch a project funded with federal dollars) I don't think they are going to feel the squeeze.
I am not in a union but the teamsters union is what gave my parents the financial stability to be able to take care of 5 kids with decent medical and dental, almost unheard of back in the 60's and to have some left to save so by 1970 they were able to move out of Jersey City and buy their own home in Toms River, there by allowing my younger brothers and sister to get of Jersy City just about the time it was turning bad.
My kids are professional except one, he is a UNION pipefitter in Northern NJ allowing him to do what he does best, working with his hands and provide a decent living. As far as the TRADE UNIONS go most young people have no desire for that line of work, pipe fitters ,the steelworkers on high rises and bridges..dock workers..the trade unions offer them a 5 year apprenticeship to learn the trade....they are big on SAFETY, I don't want some $15ph person replacing the Tappan Zee Bridge, I want someone who knows what the hell they are doing. As far as the trades non union shops hire people not properly trained or skilled in the job at task....every day when I drive on 80 the tractor trailer trucks worry me...did this guy check his breaks? How are his tires? Did he make enough to get new ones? Unless it is a teamster truck, like Yellow freight, those guys pre trip their trucks before they leave the gate in the morning...if there is a problem it is either fixed or it don't go out..can not force them to take an unsafe truck out....can not threaten to fire them for not taking the truck out and if you think this doesn't happen in non union shops take a close look at some of those raggedy azz pieces of junk on turnpike everday.
I think what has most peoples knickers in a bunch is the public servants unions..teachers, cops, firemen. because our collective tax dollars pay their wages, benefits and retirement.we brought that on ourselves and need to compromise.
I will always be pro union and against right to work states...
im not the one thats wrong. you cant pay someone a wage that they can not use to survive unless they are getting some kind of supplemental help elsewhere. government assistance drives down wages.
i see a problem with your jealousy, not his earnings.
Not jealous of people i don't even know. He might kick his dog for all i know.
I posted this elsewhere but Costco pays a living wage, good benefits and a lot fewer of their employees are on public assistance compared to Wal-mart and Sam's.
So yeah, cheap greedy companies force people to seek help elsewhere.
Not jealous of people i don't even know. He might kick his dog for all i know.
I posted this elsewhere but Costco pays a living wage, good benefits and a lot fewer of their employees are on public assistance compared to Wal-mart and Sam's.
So yeah, cheap greedy companies force people to seek help elsewhere.
I can attest to that as one son started there in highschool and worked there through college, by time he left he was making dam good money for a 22 year old and I did not have to carry him on my benefits when he was in college because he received benefits at Costco actually a lot better than mine at the time for a big global company.
I am not in a union but the teamsters union is what gave my parents the financial stability to be able to take care of 5 kids with decent medical and dental, almost unheard of back in the 60's and to have some left to save so by 1970 they were able to move out of Jersey City and buy their own home in Toms River, there by allowing my younger brothers and sister to get of Jersy City just about the time it was turning bad.
My kids are professional except one, he is a UNION pipefitter in Northern NJ allowing him to do what he does best, working with his hands and provide a decent living. As far as the TRADE UNIONS go most young people have no desire for that line of work, pipe fitters ,the steelworkers on high rises and bridges..dock workers..the trade unions offer them a 5 year apprenticeship to learn the trade....they are big on SAFETY, I don't want some $15ph person replacing the Tappan Zee Bridge, I want someone who knows what the hell they are doing. As far as the trades non union shops hire people not properly trained or skilled in the job at task....every day when I drive on 80 the tractor trailer trucks worry me...did this guy check his breaks? How are his tires? Did he make enough to get new ones? Unless it is a teamster truck, like Yellow freight, those guys pre trip their trucks before they leave the gate in the morning...if there is a problem it is either fixed or it don't go out..can not force them to take an unsafe truck out....can not threaten to fire them for not taking the truck out and if you think this doesn't happen in non union shops take a close look at some of those raggedy azz pieces of junk on turnpike everday.
I think what has most peoples knickers in a bunch is the public servants unions..teachers, cops, firemen. because our collective tax dollars pay their wages, benefits and retirement.we brought that on ourselves and need to compromise.
I will always be pro union and against right to work states...
this is a good post and I'm thinking those of us who grew up lower middle class with parents in the public sector and/or belonged to unions "get it" (mine "escaped" JC for Bayonne in the late 60's, they felt like the Jeffersons! LOL)
I am not in a union but the teamsters union is what gave my parents the financial stability to be able to take care of 5 kids with decent medical and dental, almost unheard of back in the 60's and to have some left to save so by 1970 they were able to move out of Jersey City and buy their own home in Toms River, there by allowing my younger brothers and sister to get of Jersy City just about the time it was turning bad.
My kids are professional except one, he is a UNION pipefitter in Northern NJ allowing him to do what he does best, working with his hands and provide a decent living. As far as the TRADE UNIONS go most young people have no desire for that line of work, pipe fitters ,the steelworkers on high rises and bridges..dock workers..the trade unions offer them a 5 year apprenticeship to learn the trade....they are big on SAFETY, I don't want some $15ph person replacing the Tappan Zee Bridge, I want someone who knows what the hell they are doing. As far as the trades non union shops hire people not properly trained or skilled in the job at task....every day when I drive on 80 the tractor trailer trucks worry me...did this guy check his breaks? How are his tires? Did he make enough to get new ones? Unless it is a teamster truck, like Yellow freight, those guys pre trip their trucks before they leave the gate in the morning...if there is a problem it is either fixed or it don't go out..can not force them to take an unsafe truck out....can not threaten to fire them for not taking the truck out and if you think this doesn't happen in non union shops take a close look at some of those raggedy azz pieces of junk on turnpike everday.
I think what has most peoples knickers in a bunch is the public servants unions..teachers, cops, firemen. because our collective tax dollars pay their wages, benefits and retirement.we brought that on ourselves and need to compromise.
I will always be pro union and against right to work states...
I'm not entirely anti-union either. Many people built a better life for themselves and their family via union work in the post-WW2 period, but times and the economy have changed. Like I said, organizations like the professional trade unions certainly have an important place and function. Public sector unions (which again, are the largest and most dominant ones now), IMO, should simply not exist.
I will quibble over the truck driver scenario though. I worked for a large trucking fleet for many years and am still in transportation. Very few professional drivers and carriers are union anymore. Over 80% of actual OTR, LTL and dedicated fleets are non-union. The rules governing safety, hours of operation, etc. are all mandated by federal law. Whether union or not, all drivers need to follow the same rules. Fleets face massive fines and can even be shut down for not following federal regulations or operating unsafe equipment. Every driver is charged with the duty to perform a proper pre-trip inspection before they leave the terminal. If a driver discovers a deficiency that impacts safety, they are protected by law to say they will not operate the truck until the safety defects are repaired. An operator that threatens a driver and "forces" them to operate an unsafe vehicle faces massive fines and risks being shutdown all together.
The "raggedy azz" trucks you see pretty much fall into one of two categories. Owner-operators which are basically private contractors that bid on jobs individually or work for a company. Those that work for a company need to meet the same safety standards as any company truck. I have personally "red tagged" owner-operators for unsafe equipment and this is not uncommon. The second category are small private truck fleets that work for construction companies, scrap haulers, etc. In general, yes, these trucks are less well maintained and older then actual trucking company equipment. They are also the ones more likely to try and skirt the rules eventhough the laws apply to all operators. FWIW, union truck fleets have no better safety record then non-union fleets. Drivers are also in such high demand that they basically become highly sought after free agents. If company A pays a lower mileage rate then company B the driver just switches companies and often nabs a huge bonus in the process. The pay is so competitive that union wages are no better then in non-union fleets and when factoring in the cost of dues, actually tend to be lower.
Where the union fleets do make out is the fact that they will take on new drivers as apprentices and allow them to earn experience and time behind the wheel. Most major operators won't even hire a driver who has less then two years experience and anything less then a spotless safety record.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
