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why does someone deserve a cut for taking mass transit? what benefit did i get from driving that is now equalized by this? im pretty sure i pay gas taxes and $21+ in tolls a day for my commute.
Actually there's a parking benefit too, but no tolls benefit.
im pretty sure the tolls bring in more than the maintenance of the bridge costs.
im not really sure that i caused any more damage but even still, its not like i dont pay for my "damage." so i guess the concept is that i dont pay enough for my damage or the mass transit takers pay too much for theirs. i think they dont pay enough to actually cover the costs of their transportation.
Just FYI, that's a common remark people make about tolls that really makes no sense. People sometimes seem to be under the impression that the tolls for XYZ bridge go to maintenance and operations of XYZ bridge. Tolls go into the overall revenue for the specific agency, and that revenue is what their ratings are based on that give them the ability to issue bonds to do their capital projects.
As for what the mass transportation actually costs (for example, a NJ Transit train) I guess you'd have to go to the NJT website to find that information. I'm not fond of reading financial reports, so I'll let you do that.
At any rate, whether we like it or not, in this area mass transportation is encouraged simply due to the high population and related traffic congestion, so one person in a car is NEVER going to get any breaks.
Just FYI, that's a common remark people make about tolls that really makes no sense. People sometimes seem to be under the impression that the tolls for XYZ bridge go to maintenance and operations of XYZ bridge. Tolls go into the overall revenue for the specific agency, and that revenue is what their ratings are based on that give them the ability to issue bonds to do their capital projects.
but thats what im saying. maybe i misunderstood your point but i thought you were saying that if you want the bridge, you need to pay the toll to build it with the implication being thats what the toll is for. but im saying that the toll is for that plus other projects. so by paying tolls, im paying for my bridge expense and im paying for the general expenses of commuting plus other government waste like the world trade center. so i think im paying more than my "fair share" as a driver, just as much (from my perspective) as someone who uses mass transit whose price of a ticket probably doesnt even cover the expense of their ride alone. i pay for my car ride and part of their train ride.
Just FYI, that's a common remark people make about tolls that really makes no sense. People sometimes seem to be under the impression that the tolls for XYZ bridge go to maintenance and operations of XYZ bridge. Tolls go into the overall revenue for the specific agency, and that revenue is what their ratings are based on that give them the ability to issue bonds to do their capital projects.
In particular, tolls for the MTA bridges over the Hudson mostly go to pay for mass transit.
In particular, tolls for the MTA bridges over the Hudson mostly go to pay for mass transit.
MTA doesn't have any bridges over the Hudson. The Bayonne, Outerbridge, Goethals, and GWB are all PA bridges. That was the original point of the PA, to handle the transportation facilities in areas shared by both states.
MTA does have the Verrazano. Not sure about any others.
but thats what im saying. maybe i misunderstood your point but i thought you were saying that if you want the bridge, you need to pay the toll to build it with the implication being thats what the toll is for. but im saying that the toll is for that plus other projects. so by paying tolls, im paying for my bridge expense and im paying for the general expenses of commuting plus other government waste like the world trade center. so i think im paying more than my "fair share" as a driver, just as much (from my perspective) as someone who uses mass transit whose price of a ticket probably doesnt even cover the expense of their ride alone. i pay for my car ride and part of their train ride.
OK, that's logical. You might be subsidizing PATH as well as paying for the bridge if you use a PA bridge to cross the Arthur Kill. And subsidizing the NYC subways if you take the Verrazano, too (don't you work in Brooklyn?)
We are all connected in the Great Circle of Life, Simba.
MTA doesn't have any bridges over the Hudson. The Bayonne, Outerbridge, Goethals, and GWB are all PA bridges. That was the original point of the PA, to handle the transportation facilities in areas shared by both states.
MTA does have the Verrazano. Not sure about any others.
But you have the right idea.
Sorry, TUNNELS, not bridges. Don't know what I was thinking.
Of course the Port Authority does the same thing, only they spend the money on big buildings instead of trains.
Sorry, TUNNELS, not bridges. Don't know what I was thinking.
Of course the Port Authority does the same thing, only they spend the money on big buildings instead of trains.
The HT and LT are PA, too.
Yes, PA needs to get out of the real estate business, definitely. In fairness, a few years after the attacks the public started about why wasn't the PA rebuilding the WTC fast enough and the politicians jumped all over that and demanded that the PA get moving on the project. Even though most of the rebuilding was supposed to be done by SPI, the politicians had Silverstein turn over a chunk of the insurance money to the PA under the Master Agreement to get One WTC started in 2005. Then they started building it, and the next set of politicians' complaint was "OH, but we have to have the Memorial open for the tenth anniversary!" Of course, since Memorial is the ROOF of the PATH Station and other parts of the structural that go down 60 feet, thousands of drawings had to be redone to accommodate the switch to a top-down construction method with temporary support so that the "roof" could be completed before everything beneath it was done. This wasn't cheap, to put it mildly, but the politicians had to show the public that THEY were getting this DONE. Then the tenth anniversary passes, everyone forgets that these demands were made, there's a recession on by then, and the next set of politicians comes along and says, "What? You spent all that MONEY?" It's ridiculous. The biggest problem with these agencies and authorities is that the politicians running them are temporary players with too much power and too much say over what gets done, and they only want done what is going to further their personal goals, which usually consists of either getting re-elected or getting elected to a higher office. Decisions are not made based on what's good for the region, or god forbid, the public. Then they move on and the next set of elected bozos gets to point fingers at their predecessors and the whole cycle starts again.
Yeah, but the point IS to get some cars off the road, right? Giving you a tax credit for driving would sort of work against that.
As nybbler mentioned, they give you a parking credit (I believe it's $230 a month. They raised it to $230 for mass transit, but then cut it back down ot $125)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
As for what the mass transportation actually costs (for example, a NJ Transit train) I guess you'd have to go to the NJT website to find that information. I'm not fond of reading financial reports, so I'll let you do that.
They have the variable/marginal costs, and then the total costs, which include overhead. When they report that, they usually mean the total costs.
Keep in mind that this is an average, so the busier lines perform better than the less-busy lines. Somebody riding from Penn Station out to say, Elizabeth is paying a larger percentage of the costs than somebody riding out to say, Gladstone.
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