Unnecessary Seizure-Impoundment Of A Vehicle (Newark, Camden: lawyer, salaries, property tax)
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Yeah he had his registration card--he didn't have his insurance card. Try to keep up
You cannot get a registration card without proof of insurance so the cop was a d*ck!
You honestly can't think of anyway, whatsoever, that one can get a legal registration, yet not have insurance after they secure the registration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
That is because NJS 39:6B has no impoundment provision at all.
However, NJ 39:3-29.1a does allow for the impoundment of a vehicle immediately if it is being operated without insurance coverage. The problem is that which they are going to charge you with is all dependent on the officers discretion. You obviously cannot prove you have insurance without the card or some electronic means and/or phone call, so the officer can default to assuming you were operating without insurance. It all comes down to how much time the officer wants to take and how lenient they want to be.
If the OP's story was 100% legit, then chances are they were charged as "driving without insurance", not "failure to provide proof". The former allows for immediate impoundment, the latter has a 24 hour grace period before a warrant for impoundment can be issued.
Thinking about this, there is an obvious issue there. The spirit of the law would seem to be that people who operate without any insurance coverage should have their car impounded and rightly so. However, it also attempts to be logical and provide a window of time for someone with coverage to provide the proof and avoid the more severe penalties. The more I googled around on this, the OP's story is more common then you would think and all the cases seem to come down to officer discretion.
I think it is obvious that the laws need to be worked a little tighter to eliminate the need for so much officer discretion, especially when it comes to impounding a vehicle. So, I don't think the impoundment was illegal based on the applicable statutes, but it is obvious that there is a very grey area between failing to provide proof and not having insurance that allows too much "discretion" on the part of the officer.
You honestly can't think of anyway, whatsoever, that one can get a legal registration, yet not have insurance after they secure the registration?
However, NJ 39:3-29.1a does allow for the impoundment of a vehicle immediately if it is being operated without insurance coverage. The problem is that which they are going to charge you with is all dependent on the officers discretion. You obviously cannot prove you have insurance without the card or some electronic means and/or phone call, so the officer can default to assuming you were operating without insurance. It all comes down to how much time the officer wants to take and how lenient they want to be.
If the OP's story was 100% legit, then chances are they were charged as "driving without insurance", not "failure to provide proof". The former allows for immediate impoundment, the latter has a 24 hour grace period before a warrant for impoundment can be issued.
Thinking about this, there is an obvious issue there. The spirit of the law would seem to be that people who operate without any insurance coverage should have their car impounded and rightly so. However, it also attempts to be logical and provide a window of time for someone with coverage to provide the proof and avoid the more severe penalties. The more I googled around on this, the OP's story is more common then you would think and all the cases seem to come down to officer discretion.
I think it is obvious that the laws need to be worked a little tighter to eliminate the need for so much officer discretion, especially when it comes to impounding a vehicle. So, I don't think the impoundment was illegal based on the applicable statutes, but it is obvious that there is a very grey area between failing to provide proof and not having insurance that allows too much "discretion" on the part of the officer.
So in essence either the officer was a hard azz or o/p took on an attitude perhaps that escalated the situation. Would love to know where in NJ this happened.
However, NJ 39:3-29.1a does allow for the impoundment of a vehicle immediately if it is being operated without insurance coverage.
It most certainly does not. NJ 39:3-29.1a provides the motorist 24 hours to produce the card.
But cops don't like that provision, because they know it's going to be hard to find the vehicle after 24 hours. So they sometimes impound the vehicle immediately, unlawfully, because they know there's no one to call them on it.
I don't have a belief that the state would do no wrong, not sure why you think that. But if the law is so clear that you have 24 hours to provide proof of insurance, what on earth would he have written on the impoundment order? He couldn't write "no insurance card" if the law is clear that you have 24 hours. Also the OP hasn't been back to answer any questions, so all combined leads me to believe he's leaving out some major detail. No evidence, though, sorry about that. I just don't think a cop would do something that is so easily provable that he is disregarding the law.
See, you believe the cop will do no wrong. The fact is, once the motorist's car has been unlawfully impounded, there's not a thing he can do about it. He can find his insurance card, get a release from the P.D., pay the fees, get the car out of lockup, and then go to court for the ticket and ask the judge to dismiss the no-papers ticket for costs (which the judge may or may not do).
But that's the end of it; no one will question whether the cop should have impounded the car in the first place, his only option is to hire an attorney to sue the municipality to recover the cost of the tow, and that will both cost more than the tow and cost him even more time. And most likely he'll get a judge who also believes the cops can do no wrong, and won't even look up before dismissing the case.
This is NJ. Cops make up their own rules and then lie about it on paper in front of a judge. Police Unions have too much power in this state.
So what's your position? The cop impounded the car without cause and this is their standard abuse of power? Let's assume that cops do abuse power. This scenario would be exceedingly stupid since ther would be a clear trail of impounding without cause. And that ain't gonna fly for long.
So what's your position? The cop impounded the car without cause and this is their standard abuse of power? Let's assume that cops do abuse power. This scenario would be exceedingly stupid since ther would be a clear trail of impounding without cause. And that ain't gonna fly for long.
Damn, I'm such a libertarian -- If I were in charge I'd send the suburban cops into Camden and Newark to put them to work instead of driving around brand new Dodge Challengers and giving hard working tax payers speeding and misdemeanor tickets like drunken sailors. You feel that it's right having property tax dollars garnished to pay for their stupidly high salaries? Police salaries in NJ are nearly the highest in the nation (and at what cost?) And since I'm such a dick I'm probably cut their pensions too so our state doesn't suffocate as much come budget crunch time, but of course knowing how our democratic legislature works, that would never happen.
78 east and west is just jammed with cops looking for ANY reason to pull someone over. I always know when to slow down, even though I often break 90 without even realizing it with keeping up with the traffic. Cops hide out away from the median so you can't see them -- even though legally they are supposed to be out so you have the opportunity to slow down. At some point you have to say give a guy a break. What if it were you in this position? Tell me you wouldn't whine? Tell me you MAY have forgot your NEW insurance card on the kitchen counter one day and then NOT blame it on authoritarianism? Dude, it happens we're all humans after all.
If you ever leave NJ and the northeast you'll realize that people are more laid back and the cops less douchey about most things. In NJ the corruption within the police force runs wild.
Damn, I'm such a libertarian -- If I were in charge I'd send the suburban cops into Camden and Newark to put them to work instead of driving around brand new Dodge Challengers and giving hard working tax payers speeding and misdemeanor tickets like drunken sailors. You feel that it's right having property tax dollars garnished to pay for their stupidly high salaries? Police salaries in NJ are nearly the highest in the nation (and at what cost?) And since I'm such a dick I'm probably cut their pensions too so our state doesn't suffocate as much come budget crunch time, but of course knowing how our democratic legislature works, that would never happen.
78 east and west is just jammed with cops looking for ANY reason to pull someone over. I always know when to slow down, even though I often break 90 without even realizing it with keeping up with the traffic. Cops hide out away from the median so you can't see them -- even though legally they are supposed to be out so you have the opportunity to slow down. At some point you have to say give a guy a break. What if it were you in this position? Tell me you wouldn't whine? Tell me you MAY have forgot your NEW insurance card on the kitchen counter one day and then NOT blame it on authoritarianism? Dude, it happens we're all humans after all.
If you ever leave NJ and the northeast you'll realize that people are more laid back and the cops less douchey about most things. In NJ the corruption within the police force runs wild.
I assume you've never met the Ames, Iowa police force - they make NJ cops look like angels, trust me on that one.
Now I was also pulled over by a state trooper in Indiana for speeding and he was the nicest man I think I have ever met. He looked into my car and saw it was packed to the max and asked where I going - I told him I just graduated and was moving back home and then he spotted my rabbits in the cage in the back seat and jumped backed, laughed and said "my God - you have live animals in there too!" I said "I sure hope they're alive!" and we laughed. He gave me a warning and wished me luck on my move back home. I told him I would get out of the car and hug him if getting tasered wasn't a viable threat and he laughed, shook my hand and told me to have a good night. He was an awesome man.
I'm not so sure it's where you are but which cop you get. It's the luck of the draw IMO. Some are awesome and kind and some are dicks. That happens everywhere. I've had some pretty nice cops pull me over in NJ over the years too. Just lucky I guess.
No , I don't. I'm not going to argue anymore except on this point. My reasoning was not that a cop will do no wrong, it was that I didn't think a cop would do wrong when it would be so easy to prove he was doing wrong. If it's a "my word vs. your word" thing I DO think SOME cops will lie sometimes (it happened to me years ago) but that is not what this case appeared to be until NJGoat informed us that the law does allow police discretion. I felt if the law said "this is the criteria that must be met for impoundment" then a cop wouldn't impound if the criteria wasn't met because it would be easy to prove the criteria weren't met.
Again, thanks to NJGoat I now know this is not the case here, but I find it offensive for you to claim to know what I believe.
Damn, I'm such a libertarian -- If I were in charge I'd send the suburban cops into Camden and Newark to put them to work instead of driving around brand new Dodge Challengers and giving hard working tax payers speeding and misdemeanor tickets like drunken sailors. You feel that it's right having property tax dollars garnished to pay for their stupidly high salaries? Police salaries in NJ are nearly the highest in the nation (and at what cost?) And since I'm such a dick I'm probably cut their pensions too so our state doesn't suffocate as much come budget crunch time, but of course knowing how our democratic legislature works, that would never happen.
78 east and west is just jammed with cops looking for ANY reason to pull someone over. I always know when to slow down, even though I often break 90 without even realizing it with keeping up with the traffic. Cops hide out away from the median so you can't see them -- even though legally they are supposed to be out so you have the opportunity to slow down. At some point you have to say give a guy a break. What if it were you in this position? Tell me you wouldn't whine? Tell me you MAY have forgot your NEW insurance card on the kitchen counter one day and then NOT blame it on authoritarianism? Dude, it happens we're all humans after all.
If you ever leave NJ and the northeast you'll realize that people are more laid back and the cops less douchey about most things. In NJ the corruption within the police force runs wild.
You OFTEN break 90 mph on the roads....You deserve to be pulled over and WRITTEN...points...fine and insurance hike.
Cops need to be out in the open to give speeding morons a chance to slow down..really
You're more than likely one of those drivers that not only speeds but weaves in an out of lanes so you can be first..leader of the pack....I just love speeders like that because if there is a cop around they are the ones going to look into their rear view and see the lights.
I just love people that openly admit they break the law then have the audacity to bit*ch and moan about cops and call them douchey...
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