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Old 04-11-2013, 09:49 PM
 
10,223 posts, read 19,223,538 times
Reputation: 10896

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
You're playing semantics with what the other poster is saying. If my guns are locked in a safe (which they are) and I'm on vacation for two weeks and some breaks into the house, actually finds the safe (which would not be easy), and then uses extraordinary measures to get into the safe, and steals them, of course I'm not responsible for what they do with them.
I'm not playing anything. AnthonyB has said you should be responsible, full stop, even if the gun is stolen.

 
Old 04-12-2013, 04:32 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,827,353 times
Reputation: 9400
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
I'm not playing anything. AnthonyB has said you should be responsible, full stop, even if the gun is stolen.
You have a child...you must respond to that child. Responsibility literally means to have the will and capability to respond to a situation - or a thing. Imagine the gun as a child. You must be in a constant state of supervision. People bather about "responsible" gun ownership. I believe they take their guns for granted. If a person has guns stolen the any remaining guns in the home should be removed and the permits revoked. No different if you put your child in danger - that child should be removed from your care because you are non-responsive.

The days of displaying your fire arm over the fire place are gone. Privacy and secure storage are the new normal. Firstly your gun should be totally secure from theft. Secondly no one should know if you have a gun or not. It is a very private issue. "Gun nuts" who brag or brandish should not have weapons. Guns are very serious tools and are not adult toys. All gun crime be it domestic or that which is street crime can be curbed and stopped if gun owners finally take real mature responsibility for a tool that can deliver death.

The light hearted attitude that Americans have developed regarding guns is worrisome. Time to get serious and realize that when a child is killed or a citizen is shot with a stolen weapon...that "Guns do not kill people...people kill people. A child that dies because the gun owner was not responding to danger can be harshly translated into - People kill people..these parents killed their own child...THAT IS THE COLD TRUTH.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 04:35 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,980,087 times
Reputation: 8912
I am liberal. I believe gays should be given the same rights as everyone else and abortion should be on demand. I also believe, barring severe mental illness, every American who is of age has the right to have guns.

The trouble is, if someone invades your home, I doubt if you will have time to unlock your guns and unlock the ammunition stored in another place . . .

For, I think actual decades, I have been hearing of the manufacture of guns that require a fingerprint in order to operate. That sort of gun could not be used by a child. It could not be taken away from a person by a crook and used against the owner. It could lie around the house, near the door maybe, in complete safety.

I don't own a gun, but I think law enforcement can get them. Why are people not calling for there sale to the general public? It would seem to solve a lot of problems.

I am even told that, if such a gun is stolen and an attempt is made to dissemble it, the gun breaks and can no longer be put together.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,827,353 times
Reputation: 9400
Also: The solution is simple. If you do not have full control over yourself or your weapons then you are not capable of owning a weapon. In Canada there have always been severe restrictions regarding hand guns. They are in comparison to hunting rifles almost non-existent - up unto lately. We have a flood of hand guns entering into Canada and they are being distributed in our poor ghetto communities. Gun crime in some pockets of my city manifest almost in an American way. Where do these weapons originate? The fact that we have thousands of your guns up here now...only shows that you do NOT have control over your weapons.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,827,353 times
Reputation: 9400
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I am liberal. I believe gays should be given the same rights as everyone else and abortion should be on demand. I also believe, barring severe mental illness, every American who is of age has the right to have guns.

The trouble is, if someone invades your home, I doubt if you will have time to unlock your guns and unlock the ammunition stored in another place . . .

For, I think actual decades, I have been hearing of the manufacture of guns that require a fingerprint in order to operate. That sort of gun could not be used by a child. It could not be taken away from a person by a crook and used against the owner. It could lie around the house, near the door maybe, in complete safety.
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I don't own a gun, but I think law enforcement can get them. Why are people not calling for there sale to the general public? It would seem to solve a lot of problems.

I am even told that, if such a gun is stolen and an attempt is made to dissemble it, the gun breaks and can no longer be put together.
It is about human smarts. Unlocking a gun or having to unlock one in an emergency is not feasible. Some people are not clever enough to "hide" a weapon. My eldest daughter is brilliant when it comes to hiding things. That is a talent and it depends on having a great imagination. Sadly most people are not clever and the problem we face is that of equal rights. Dumb people are entitled to own a gun in America. That is the problem and defect in a liberal democracy. We are taught that all people are equal and all people are equally smart.

The sad fact is that intelligent people understand the ramifications of un-controlled deadly force and the gun. Stupid people do not understand. You can not legislate intelligence. This is the defect of living in a totally wild and free society, Stupid people are granted the same rights as smart people. There is nothing you can do about it unless you create a benevolent dictatorship. The key word is "benevolent".....That leads to the secondary problem. What dictator or king though out history has been kind and benevolent? Very few due to the nature of power and it's ability to corrupt. We are stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 05:35 AM
 
Location: New Jersey/Florida
5,818 posts, read 12,632,212 times
Reputation: 4414
I agree with Oleg when he says"We have thousands of your guns up here" You do not have control of your weapons. Same applies to NJ, we have thousands of weapons that were purchased legally out of state(with liberal laws) that are transported daily to NJ illegally and wind up in the wrong hands and many times they contribute to death. If they put people in prison for violating existing gun laws this might help. How about 10 years in prison for gun trafficking. Problem solved.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,827,353 times
Reputation: 9400
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
I agree with Oleg when he says"We have thousands of your guns up here" You do not have control of your weapons. Same applies to NJ, we have thousands of weapons that were purchased legally out of state(with liberal laws) that are transported daily to NJ illegally and wind up in the wrong hands and many times they contribute to death. If they put people in prison for violating existing gun laws this might help. How about 10 years in prison for gun trafficking. Problem solved.
Twenty five years ago if you were caught in Canada with a hand gun you would not make bail. Now the courts release gang bangers caught with illegal hand guns. THEN there is an out cry in Toronto to "ban the gun" or to "ban ammunition" _which is stupid because hand guns have always been banned in Canada. If you have an old Smith and Wesson revolver...it is near impossible to buy ammo for the thing. There are existing laws in place that are NOT enforce- Here and state side.

Here is where the judicial system fails in Canada. If say twenty five years ago you were caught with a pistol..The judge understood one thing. That there is only one purpose for carrying a hand gun and that is for killing another human being. That is the purpose of the hand gun tool. It was a simple approach and the penalties were stiff. I could swear that elite white judges in Toronto enjoy the idea of blacks killing blacks in Toronto- so they release them to do the judges racist bidding.

Ironically my last premise is sheer speculation and boarders on conspiracy theory. The reality is liberals in Toronto who are against the gun run our court systems and they do not want to ruin the lives of young offenders who are caught with guns...so they go easy on them. Mean while fifteen year old punks ruin the lives of many others when the execute a perceived rival.


We in my family were old school. There was a time when we wanted to toy with revolver and wanted to test it out. Because of our upbringing and conditioning by our old standard laws, We were terrified to transport the weapon to a place where we could fire it. We had this attitude because we were fully aware of strict laws forbidding hand guns in general. NOW - young punks walk about their hood and even venture down town with a pistol in their pants. That is because they know the laws are not enforced.


I believe it is fair if you hand out a ten year sentence. Anybody carrying a hand gun will eventually use it. Pre- emptive sentencing should be allowed. You want to carry a people killer- then you shall be treated and considered a potential people killer.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 06:00 AM
 
3,984 posts, read 7,079,510 times
Reputation: 2889
But along with Canada's just awful, Commie govt. provided healthcare to all its citizens, how can you stand living in a place where you can't buy dozens of guns and stockpile.thousands of rounds of ammo? You must be super jealous of our freedoms.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,622 posts, read 84,875,076 times
Reputation: 115183
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Show me ONE POST here that advocates outlawing the ownership of firearms by "anyone but government agents", just one... show me one politician that advocates this while you're at it. NO ONE is trying to take your precious guns away. Regulation is not a ban; there are many things in our lives which require background checks, from getting a job at Walmart to adopting a kitten from the shelter. Yet no one is running around paranoid proclaiming that background checks are just the first step to banning kitten adoptions altogether.

I find it ironic that gun "luvvers", who you'd think would feel safer than anyone, seem to be more fearful
than most people, not less, at least going by the vibe/rhetoric I read in threads like this.

I can't help but wonder if the gun-loving father of the 4 year old shooter has his own posts arguing against gun regulation somewhere on this or another forum, on a thread started after some previous gun tragedy? If he does, I would put money they would sound very similar to your own, complete with lists of stats and convoluted logic about how since more kids die from falling into toilets, guns shouldn't be regulated at all.
Good post. People who say things like this "You may hate firearms but if you think that outlawing the ownership of firearms by anyone but government agents ..." just sound foolish. No one is asking for THAT. What is the point of such hyperbole?
 
Old 04-12-2013, 06:50 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,702,762 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Good post. People who say things like this "You may hate firearms but if you think that outlawing the ownership of firearms by anyone but government agents ..." just sound foolish. No one is asking for THAT. What is the point of such hyperbole?
honestly, it the only weapon (no pun intended) the gun lovers have. if they convince people that the "gubmint is cummin' fer yer guns" it will make it harder to pass sensible legislation (i know if it's sensible why is there such resentment. I don't know).
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