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Old 04-25-2013, 01:00 PM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,859 posts, read 9,946,148 times
Reputation: 3399

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Mantoloking prepares to use eminent domain to turn homeowners' property into dunes | NJ.com

I'm surprised this hasn't come up on CD yet. I was listening to a story about this on NPR this morning which presented the sides of both the homeowners and the government. As it turns out, most of the homeowners who are holding out are doing so because of the vague wording of the agreements they're being asked to sign. Most news stories portray these folks as simply being "greedy" and not willing to give up their ocean view. While that may be part of it, there is also an understandable anxiety about the government's right to put up "temporary structures" on the land that is taken for sand dunes. They are worried that could eventually be construed to mean boardwalks, bathrooms, etc... There is a part of me that gets that, but let's put things into perspective here:

These are homes which were built on land that was never really meant to have permanent structures on it in the first place. The only reason these homes exist in the first place is because there is a GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED flood insurance program. If these folks were footing the bill for their own flood insurance, fine, but they're not. How about the Army Corps takes it's ball and goes home and the properties in question are made ineligible for federal flood insurance and FEMA assistance? To me that seems like the fairest solution all the way around. These folks can keep their homes, their property, and their views, but when the next hurricane strikes they will have to rebuild on their own.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:40 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,419 posts, read 15,147,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
Mantoloking prepares to use eminent domain to turn homeowners' property into dunes | NJ.com

I'm surprised this hasn't come up on CD yet. I was listening to a story about this on NPR this morning which presented the sides of both the homeowners and the government. As it turns out, most of the homeowners who are holding out are doing so because of the vague wording of the agreements they're being asked to sign. Most news stories portray these folks as simply being "greedy" and not willing to give up their ocean view. While that may be part of it, there is also an understandable anxiety about the government's right to put up "temporary structures" on the land that is taken for sand dunes. They are worried that could eventually be construed to mean boardwalks, bathrooms, etc... There is a part of me that gets that, but let's put things into perspective here:

These are homes which were built on land that was never really meant to have permanent structures on it in the first place. The only reason these homes exist in the first place is because there is a GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED flood insurance program. If these folks were footing the bill for their own flood insurance, fine, but they're not. How about the Army Corps takes it's ball and goes home and the properties in question are made ineligible for federal flood insurance and FEMA assistance? To me that seems like the fairest solution all the way around. These folks can keep their homes, their property, and their views, but when the next hurricane strikes they will have to rebuild on their own.
Personally, I think the dunes make the beach so much more beautiful. In the town where my beach house is located (NY, not NJ) it is illegal to tear down the dunes, so people just build their houses in such a way that the dunes aren't an issue. Some people build up the land before they build so the house is higher than the dune. In the case of my house, the main floor is the second floor. The deck and pool come off the second floor, so looking out from the house, it feels like you are on the ground floor, and you don't even see my first floor from the beach. In fact, looking from the beach it looks as if my house is only 1 story, because you just see a big dune with a deck coming out over it and the top floor. The downstairs is just kids bedrooms, and an office because there is no view. All this architectural planning (thankfully) because of the dune.

Last year the dune is the only reason my house was still there. The dune took a real beating, but the house is untouched. There used to be a nice easy grade on the sand from the deck down to the beach. Not anymore. Now there is a 10 foot drop and a staircase that has been buried and hasn't seen the light of day in many years. I can only imagine how bad it would have been without the dune. Anyone who thinks that dunes will decrease their property values are very short sighted.

Last edited by AnesthesiaMD; 04-25-2013 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,607,915 times
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My SIL has a home on LBI. As I understand it - all of LBI (each township actually) is required to sign off on a government funded project to build/rebuild the dunes - and there are homeowners refusing to sign off. If EVERYONE doesn't agree? Guess what, you still have to do it (to be eligible for flood insurance I think?) but the homeowners/township will bear the cost.

It HAS to be done. The places hardest hit by Sandy on LBI were those who did not have the replenishment project done a few years ago by the Army Corp of Engineers. I'm with MD - I like dunes. My SIL's complex had great dunes and zero damage.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:09 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,607,915 times
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Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
Personally, I think the dunes make the beach so much more beautiful. In the town where my beach house is located (NY, not NJ) it is illegal to tear down the dunes, so people just build their houses in such a way that the dunes aren't an issue. Some people build up the land before they build so the house is higher than the dune. In the case of my house, the main floor is the second floor. The deck and pool come off the second floor, so looking out from the house, it feels like you are on the ground floor, and you don't even see my first floor from the beach. In fact, looking from the beach it looks as if my house is only 1 story, because you just see a big dune with a deck coming out over it and the top floor. The downstairs is just kids bedrooms, and an office because there is no view. All this architectural planning (thankfully) because of the dune.

Last year the dune is the only reason my house was still there. The dune took a real beating, but the house is untouched. There used to be a nice easy grade on the sand from the deck down to the beach. Not anymore. Now there is a 10 foot drop and a staircase that has been buried and hasn't seen the light of day in many years. I can only imagine how bad it would have been without the dune. Anyone who thinks that dunes will decrease their property values are very short sighted.
Same with my SIL's place. It's a huge dropoff but it was the only reason her complex escaped unscathed. NOT having dunes will cause your property value to decrease cause guess what? You ain't getting insurance without it. No insurance? Your house is worth ZERO.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:18 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,419 posts, read 15,147,080 times
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Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
Same with my SIL's place. It's a huge dropoff but it was the only reason her complex escaped unscathed. NOT having dunes will cause your property value to decrease cause guess what? You ain't getting insurance without it. No insurance? Your house is worth ZERO.
Exactly. And when the houses are built to fit in with the dunes, it just LOOKS so much more beautiful. In The Hamptons, the dunes are deemed to be wetlands. They are extremely strict about preserving them. Their is also some bird on the endangered list there too (the piping plover) that they use to bolster their restrictions.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:45 PM
 
Location: New York, Westchester
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FYI your only covered for 250k in flood insurance....people in Mantoloking are building 10 million dollar homes they really dont care about a measly 250k policy...their home owners policy is w Lords of London, which will pay them handsomely if they have a problem......
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:00 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,419 posts, read 15,147,080 times
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Originally Posted by westchester View Post
FYI your only covered for 250k in flood insurance....people in Mantoloking are building 10 million dollar homes they really dont care about a measly 250k policy...their home owners policy is w Lords of London, which will pay them handsomely if they have a problem......
Lloyd's Of London is often the only insurance company that will even cover homes right on the beach. Policies with flood insurance often cost 6 figures, yearly so there are a lot of people who just roll the dice. After all, the land is where most of that $10 mil is coming from. You can build a nice 6000 sq foot house on the beach for 3 or 4 million. (The building code on the beach is much more stringent than in other areas) But because it is on the beach, you can sell it for 10. If a hurricane destroys the house, you still have the land, so it makes it more tempting to forego the $100,000 a year premiums. That was in the past though. With recent weather patterns being what they are I'm sure a lot of people are re examining their appetite for risk.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:52 AM
 
1,392 posts, read 2,093,554 times
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Hey, what's necessary is necessary. Like the other guys said, obviously homes shouldn't have even been built there in the first place.

I wonder why it's always dunes, and not heavier stone. Why can't they pile rip-rap (large stones)? Anybody know this? Are dunes a better block for some hydrological reason? Is it aesthetics (obviously large stones wouldn't look as good)?
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,859 posts, read 9,946,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuttree View Post
Hey, what's necessary is necessary. Like the other guys said, obviously homes shouldn't have even been built there in the first place.

I wonder why it's always dunes, and not heavier stone. Why can't they pile rip-rap (large stones)? Anybody know this? Are dunes a better block for some hydrological reason? Is it aesthetics (obviously large stones wouldn't look as good)?
I think because sand is just easier to move and it's also right there-worst case you have to pump it from off shore. Jetty stones have to be quarried from a remote location (the closest quarries for the kind of stone used in jetties are 50-60 miles from the closest beaches), and moved one by one into place by heavy machinery, vs. using heavy equipment to quickly pile up sand. Worst case they have to use a dredge ship to pump it from offshore. I wonder if it would be advantageous to pile up quarried stone and then cover it with sand to form a more durable core?
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:24 PM
 
1,392 posts, read 2,093,554 times
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well, I meant like rip-rap size, like 8-12" stones, not the huge boulders, so no odd lifting one by one necessary, still just dumping

But yeah I forgot about the dredging thing - they can actually pump sand. You can make a much bigger seabreak with the same amount of money
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