Nj May be 1st state to repeal Death penalty (home, buy)

[cyntmac]

I don't agree with much of the last 2 posts but I am not strongly in favor of it. Yes if it happened to me I would want revenge. Of course. I just don't believe this is about my emotions.

Our prisions may not be tough enough but the penal system being too easy on people does not make the arguement for death. In other words if our prisons became more harsh it would not cause me to rethink the death penalty issue.

I don't think justice is administered evenly in this country so that does shade my view. In a case of a child killer- I would want an exception. But there I go into that Santa Clause type believing. We can't really execute just those people can we? Please, pretty please?

It would be something like progress if the death sentence actually caused less crimes to be contemplated. If you look at this from the victim viewpoint-it would just be eye for an eye but that is not what we have in the U.S.A. so that argument seems like more fantasy. Nice revenge fantasy but not reflective of what we've got.

[cyntmac]

Maybe we should get behind the idea of punishment prisons. Certain prisions that are just about that. No rehabbing in those particular prisons.

Don't even get me started on 9/11. I don't think emotions fueled the decision to go to war. It was calculated every step of the way. We would have found another reason. All of the conflicts we have been involved with in recent history have been driven by economics pure and simple. One way or another they would have been ignited. The calculation is going on behind the scenes and I can't believe people are still in the dark about that. Sorry to go off topic.

[JERSEY MAN]

Does anyone follow the news reports. A murderer from the bloods gang along with another"Honor Student" escaped from the Union County jail over the weekend and are back in the streets presumably plotting on how to"KILL" others. I'll stand with my original statement that life in jail for killing DOES NOT WORK. Hence the escape over the weekend, and now we as a society have to wonder if this dirtbag bloods killer will crawl in our window and brutally rape our daughters and kill family members. If he was executed for the murder that he committed we should be able to sleep better at night. Well if they" THE CONVICTED KILLERS" are reading City data beware as I sleep with a Glock 9MM in my bed with an extended clip with hollow point bullets just waiting for a POS like you to crawl in the window. If Corzine won't kill you I'll give it my best shot.

[njkate]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

Does anyone follow the news reports. A murderer from the bloods gang along with another"Honor Student" escaped from the Union County jail over the weekend and are back in the streets presumably plotting on how to"KILL" others. I'll stand with my original statement that life in jail for killing DOES NOT WORK. Hence the escape over the weekend, and now we as a society have to wonder if this dirtbag bloods killer will crawl in our window and brutally rape our daughters and kill family members. If he was executed for the murder that he committed we should be able to sleep better at night. Well if they" THE CONVICTED KILLERS" are reading City data beware as I sleep with a Glock 9MM in my bed with an extended clip with hollow point bullets just waiting for a POS like you to crawl in the window. If Corzine won't kill you I'll give it my best shot.

Were they awaiting trial?? If they had already been convicted what the hell were they doing in a county jail and not state prison??

[JERSEY MAN]

Kate, one is a CONVICTED killer that was waiting transport to the OVERCROWDED state prison system. When the argument comes up let them stay in jail for life, this is a prime example to my argument that it always doesn't work that way. I guess the residents that live in Elizabeth next to the jail might agree with me.

[Bill Keegan]

Originally Posted by mb919

Personally- I think death would be too kind for someone who murdered my hypothetical 4 year old daughter- it's letting them off too easy. I'd prefer that person sat in a crummy, cramped jail cell all day every day for the rest of his miserable life with nothing to do except think about what a lowlife he is, or nothing to look forward to except dying, and spending the rest of his days surrounded by his fellow lowlifes. I'd wish the murderer a long, long life...

part of the problem, of course, is that this hypothetical scum doesn't sit all day in a cramped cell with nothing to do. He goes out & watches all his favorite TV shows on a TV we bought, before having a healthy & complete breakfast that we paid for, so he can have enough evergy to go out & work out, getting bigger & stronger than any of the guards in there, with the weights we paid for while getting an advanced course in criminal activities he hadn't learned about yet on the streets. Then, when the guard tells him it's time to get back to his "crowded" cell, he can mouth off to the guard all he wants because he knows that the system is set up to protect HIM and not the guard. Hell, if he provokes the guard enough, he can get into a fight, break a bone or two, sue the prison for a couple million dollars, and force the guard who hit him to lose the job.
If prison for the worst offenders really were a hell, then I might think there's no reason to put them to death. Until then, if we've determined that someone is so dangerous that they should never be allowed to be part of society again, they should be put to death. Spend that saved money on a scholarship fund, maybe prevent some kid from turning to crime in the first place.

[njkate]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

Kate, one is a CONVICTED killer that was waiting transport to the OVERCROWDED state prison system. When the argument comes up let them stay in jail for life, this is a prime example to my argument that it always doesn't work that way. I guess the residents that live in Elizabeth next to the jail might agree with me.

Ok ...I've heard the state prisons are so over crowded they "rent" cells from the counties until one becomes available

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by fischfan13

Go over each and every statement.
Answer each and every one.

Sure. I'll humor your request.

Originally Posted by fischfan13

1) A non-violent act does not require jail time.

When did I advocate supporting immediate exoneration for convicted criminals? I'm opposed to capital punishment, not incarceration. I know our penal system is already bursting at the seams, but there has to be some ramification for breaking the law (in any sense) in order to discourage others from committing the same actions. When I got my first speeding ticket I received a fine of nearly $150. When I received my second speeding ticket I had to pay another nearly $150 and also had to take a test to prevent my license from being revoked. A third speeding ticket would have resulted in me losing my license, as well as another $150 whammy. A fourth speeding ticket after that would have resulted in brief incarceration for driving with a suspended license, along with much higher financial penalties. I knew that if I didn't quell my lead foot that I'd be quite literally under home confinement since I'd have no means of transport to leave the suburbs. I couldn't imagine a worse fate. If there are ramifications for breaking the law, then naturally people will be less inclined to do so. If I knew I could speed without punishment, then I wouldn't adhere to my area's 55 mile per hour speed limit on the freeways. Prison should serve as a useful function to deter future criminal actions.

Originally Posted by fischfan13

2) It is ok for someone who has killed a child to be able to get three meals per day and a free college education.

Yes and no. Yes, criminals should receive adequate nourishment; it is simply inhumane to not feed someone. No, criminals should not receive free college education, but they should have the option to further their educations if they so chose in exchange for grueling lengthy work weeks doing something that would benefit society. I'll stand by my claims that people who possess college educations are far less likely to commit violent crimes than those without one. Just read the backgrounds of most murder suspects in inner cities; most are high school dropouts. Education expands one's horizons into realizing that they CAN have a better life beyond the streets, and this inspiration should encourage criminals to alter their ways.

Originally Posted by fischfan13

3) If someone threw a bomb into an elementary school they can get cable television and visitors and even a nice new roll of toilet paper on a daily basis.

You continually provide us with the "worst-case scenarios" for crime followed by the "best-case scenarios" for punishment, but I'll once again humor you if you are so inclined to wish me to do so. I don't know why you think sitting in a small cell with only cable television, three meals a day, and toilet paper is some sort of "reward." I don't know about you, but after just a few days of doing nothing but lying down on a cot next to a toilet and watching soap operas would probably drive me insane. If you think this is so "glamorous," then let's perform a little experiment. Let me remove all of the furnishing from your bedroom. Your comfortable mattress will be replaced by a prison-provided cot. Your television will remain intact (or one will be provided in the unlikely event you don't have one). A toilet will be placed in between them. Your windows will have bars on them, permitting very little natural light to enter. You'll receive three blandly-cooked meals per day, and you'll only leave your "prison" for one hour per day. You'll be subject to licked lips and cat calls from undersexed fellow inmates. Your "visitors" will be on the other side of a barrier---never again will you be permitted to feel a woman's touch or embrace your loved ones. While in prison your credibility in the community will be shot forever. Even if you were released after a 20-year sentence for attempted murder, those who you once knew and loved will want nothing to do with you, making you feel socially isolated. If you think this sort of lifestyle is "glamorous", then by all means demonstrate for us just how much you'd love to live in such conditions. For one week you won't be able to hug your wife. For one week you'll eat bland food. For one week you'll sit on a toilet in plain view of others. For one week you'll shower with guys who will try to convince you to pick up the soap they dropped. For one week you'll be forced to watch local televised news reports about your incarceration and how "relieved" your former friends and relatives are that you're no longer part of society---they've washed their hands of you. For one week you'll have to sit and watch Teletubbies and The View. If you for one moment think this is "easy," then your will is stronger than most.

Originally Posted by fischfan13

4) If someone took an axe and chopped their family members to pieces they can be able to see the sun rise and set. They can even, if they wish, get an extra serving of chocolate cake if the prison has it.

Since I know you folks don't like to read my long-winded replies, simply reference my last response. If you think a prisoners' like is a "cake walk" (pun intended), then by all means volunteer for this little experiment. We might be able to place a webcam in your "cell" that could stream your actions 24/7 via a live feed on this forum.

Originally Posted by fischfan13

5) If someone walks into a restaurant, ties up all of the employees, and shoots them execution style they will be allowed to use a library facility and be able, one day, to have the State defend them by saying that there is some type of medical imbalance going on in their body.

Everyone is entitled to a fair and expedient trial. It's protected in the U.S. Constitution. If you are opposed to people defending themselves once accusations are lodged against them, then by all means lobby the U.S. Supreme Court to investigate the matter.

Originally Posted by fischfan13

6) Killing a cop means that you are still allowed to live.

Define "live." If "live" is 50 years of that lifestyle I described earlier---no physical contact with loved ones, living in fear of being sodomized, losing the respect and compassion of everyone you know, eating unremarkable food (never again experiencing Chinese take-out, sushi, pizza, etc.), looking out small barred windows at a world that will never again be yours, showering in public, etc., then yes, they SHOULD "live" this way. After all, wouldn't you prefer a murderer to live a lifestyle like this until death instead of being given an easy ticket to the afterlife?

Originally Posted by fischfan13

7) Corzine is Santa.

Now I just think you've gone off the deep end. We all know Janet Reno is Santa.

Originally Posted by fischfan13

Are you in agreement that each and every statement that I made is not only true, but that you are in total agreement with it.

No. I am obviously not in agreement.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by cyntmac

Don't even get me started on 9/11. I don't think emotions fueled the decision to go to war. It was calculated every step of the way. We would have found another reason. All of the conflicts we have been involved with in recent history have been driven by economics pure and simple. One way or another they would have been ignited. The calculation is going on behind the scenes and I can't believe people are still in the dark about that. Sorry to go off topic.

I'll be sorry to go off-topic as well, but I'd still like an HONEST answer for why we invaded Iraq other than through hysterics. President Bush has continually changed our "goal" in this invasion. It started out as a means to pre-emptively disarm a nation that might have used its "weapons of mass destruction" against us. Once President Bush started feeling the pressure from critics saying more or less "Well, where are these so-called WMD's?" he changed his tune to toppling a regime that was imprisoning its people. He changed his explanation a full 180-degrees from wanting to protect America from future terrorist attacks to instead make himself look like a "humanitarian" who started a conflict in order to release repressed people in a nation without democracy. Once Hussein was executed, he once again changed his explanation to "rebuilding Iraq" (a.k.a. meddling in the civil war that erupted because he didn't plan ahead for what would happen to harmonize the Shiites and Sunnis once our "mission" was completed). Now why are we over there, may I ask?

I'm sorry, but I'll continue to be a large critic of the current administration until he comes clean and explains to us as to why we TRULY invaded Iraq other than "Oops. My bad." Do you believe we still have fools in this country who slam Bush/Iraq protesters with "Did you forget them towers in New York?" We are a nation full of hysteric sheep who Bush fooled into believing that IRAQ was the cause of 9/11, not Al-Qaeda and Usama bin Laden in AFGHANISTAN. Speaking of which, how is that Afghan conflict working out? What? We've had to divert our overextended military's focus towards Iraq instead? Usama bin Laden may be plotting another attack against us? We could have captured him years ago? I thought so.

What exactly am I "in the dark" about? It sounds like the credulous sheep in this nation who took the bait hook, line, and sinker that Saddam Hussein was complicit with Usama bin Laden and wanted to attack the U.S. again are the ones who need to be "enlightened."

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by SWB

I'll be sorry to go off-topic as well, but I'd still like an HONEST answer for why we invaded Iraq other than through hysterics. President Bush has continually changed our "goal" in this invasion. It started out as a means to pre-emptively disarm a nation that might have used its "weapons of mass destruction" against us. Once President Bush started feeling the pressure from critics saying more or less "Well, where are these so-called WMD's?" he changed his tune to toppling a regime that was imprisoning its people. He changed his explanation a full 180-degrees from wanting to protect America from future terrorist attacks to instead make himself look like a "humanitarian" who started a conflict in order to release repressed people in a nation without democracy. Once Hussein was executed, he once again changed his explanation to "rebuilding Iraq" (a.k.a. meddling in the civil war that erupted because he didn't plan ahead for what would happen to harmonize the Shiites and Sunnis once our "mission" was completed). Now why are we over there, may I ask?

I'm sorry, but I'll continue to be a large critic of the current administration until he comes clean and explains to us as to why we TRULY invaded Iraq other than "Oops. My bad." Do you believe we still have fools in this country who slam Bush/Iraq protesters with "Did you forget them towers in New York?" We are a nation full of hysteric sheep who Bush fooled into believing that IRAQ was the cause of 9/11, not Al-Qaeda and Usama bin Laden in AFGHANISTAN. Speaking of which, how is that Afghan conflict working out? What? We've had to divert our overextended military's focus towards Iraq instead? Usama bin Laden may be plotting another attack against us? We could have captured him years ago? I thought so.

What exactly am I "in the dark" about? It sounds like the credulous sheep in this nation who took the bait hook, line, and sinker that Saddam Hussein was complicit with Usama bin Laden and wanted to attack the U.S. again are the ones who need to be "enlightened."

Just to clarify so I don't get yelled at for moving this thread off-topic, realize that I only brought up the issue of 9/11 in the first place to show how quenching one's thirst for revenge is often NOT a good path to pursue, whether it be on the small scale of one death or the larger scale of 3,000. When people are hurt emotionally and angry, they tend to make rash decisions before considering all angles. Iraq is living proof of this. They didn't have WMDs. Why then did we invade? People wanted to hold MORE people accountable for the atrocities committed on that fateful Tuesday morning.

Before someone calls me insensitive for even mentioning 9/11 in the first place, realize that I knew people who lost relatives in NYC. A lot of my ex-boyfriend's friends lost parents who were Pocono-NYC commuters. This was not meant to attack victims or their families. It was meant to highlight how this thirst for revenge can have dire consequences when not thoroughly planned.