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what does that have to do with my question? just state your position. some guy randomly comes up to me on the street and punches me. i am legally carrying a gun; you think i should stand up, put up my dukes and try to out-fight him?
it has to do with why i dont wan people carrying guns even if what you describe can happen, but answering your question:
i would try to get away
if i cant get away and he keeps on punching me, id pull it out and pistol whip him and threaten him with a gun
if he doesnt calm down by then and tries to take the gun from me, well, then im firing
thats what im sayin
why would a murderer tell the truth and risk his freedom? i dont get how people dont get that
this law naively assumed people would be honest or maybe whoever came up with it jus doesnt care about unintended consequences
i could go out in FL tonight, rob somebody, and this law actually encourages me to kill the victim, instead of just robbing him, that way ill be able to say he charged at me so i felt my life was in danger (obviously omitting that i robbed him), and nobod will ever know what really happened
Please use capitals, and punctuation, it makes it easier to read, especially for people who are using reading assisting devices.
Also, I do agree with the sentiment, but if you robbed someone first, there would likely be forensic evidence disproving your story. I think that SYG is more likely to encourage people to use deadly force in situations where they would otherwise walk away, like arguments with strangers, rather than encourage them to commit crimes in the first place.
I support the Castle doctrine. but stand your ground(at least the way it's implemented in Florida) is really iffy. A hypothetical scenario of someone picking a fight with me, me whooping his ass, and him shooting me in "self defense" doesn't really sit well with me. I have no interest in carrying a gun on me or would want to live in a society where everyone was packing, but I wouldn't oppose concealed carry laws and well defined stand your ground laws that only gives immunity if someone pulled a deadly weapon on you.
This is my biggest concern with SYG as well. It encourages people who are angry to give into that anger instead of just walking away.
Please use capitals, and punctuation, it makes it easier to read, especially for people who are using reading assisting devices.
Also, I do agree with the sentiment, but if you robbed someone first, there would likely be forensic evidence disproving your story. I think that SYG is more likely to encourage people to use deadly force in situations where they would otherwise walk away, like arguments with strangers, rather than encourage them to commit crimes in the first place.
still gang members tried to use SYG many times, just as police chiefs predicted
it has to do with why i dont wan people carrying guns even if what you describe can happen, but answering your question:
i would try to get away
if i cant get away and he keeps on punching me, id pull it out and pistol whip him and threaten him with a gun
if he doesnt calm down by then and tries to take the gun from me, well, then im firing
so using the gun does become ok at some point, good. of course, im going to see that you shot a guy with no gun and i know that anyone in your position will claim "he still came after me even after i pulled the gun" so clearly i cant believe you.
it comes down to the fact that i dont trust an average citizen to make a good judgement when he should or should not use his weapon outside his home and stats about red states having the most gun deaths support that
If I'm standing in the K-mart parking lot and someone comes up running at me waving a knife and screaming about how he's going to kill me, "duty to retreat" says I have to try to run away rather than using deadly force. And if I don't, I go to prison for murder if I kill him. As you say, that's separate from any weapons issues -- even if he takes a stab at me and I subsequently kill him with my bare hands (not very likely for me), under "duty to retreat" I have committed murder. Like I said, I find that disgusting.
You are miss stating duty to retreat, it does not remotely mean you cannot defend yourself, even with deadly force.
What it does mean, if there is a scenario where a "REASONABLE" person (and this is the difference between Florida and many other SYG laws) CAN (not has to) retreat, they should before they escalate to deadly force. Your scenario does not show whether or not you reasonably can retreat.
Suppose you are in you car in the Kmart parking lot. Can you lock the door and call the police? If so you should. What is you are cornered and would have to expose yourself to attack in order to retreat? Than you would be reasonably justified in using deadly force.
The fist fight scenario is valid. Suppose someone punches or shoves or even yells at you, you retaliate in the same manner to protect yourself (or even if YOU start the fight), they begin to run off, should you be allowed to shoot them? In the Florida version of SYG, if you sincerely believe they might turn around and shoot you (even if you have not idea whether or not they have a gun), you have the right to shoot them in the back as they run away.
States like Michigan require you to have a reasonable instead of sincere belief that they will harm you, this means that the above scenario would not be self-defense but rather homicide.
so using the gun does become ok at some point, good. of course, im going to see that you shot a guy with no gun and i know that anyone in your position will claim "he still came after me even after i pulled the gun" so clearly i cant believe you.
well, id try to make sure there were witnesses around if i had to shoot him lol
it becomes complicated, but u asked me what should u do if u carried a gun
that is why i wouldnt carry it
it comes down to the fact that i dont trust an average citizen to make a good judgement when he should or should not use his weapon outside his home and stats about red states having the most gun deaths support that
See we disagree. I have no issue with concealed carry. I sort of like it because to be able to legally carry a concealed weapon, you have to have a license, which can (and often is) tied to gun safety training.
I dislike SYG, especially Florida's version, because it encouraged people to use deadly force when their emotions are heightened.
it comes down to the fact that i dont trust an average citizen to make a good judgement when he should or should not use his weapon outside his home and stats about red states having the most gun deaths support that
i understand that, but we have to deal with the realities in the world. while you dont want any people carrying guns; it is legal in many places for people to carry guns. so we need to consider when is it ok for someone legally carrying to use his/her gun without being sent to prison.
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