U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:05 AM
 
1,041 posts, read 2,820,245 times
Reputation: 772

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
Beyond massive-my wife and I met in college because we were both education majors. Both of us planned to become high school teachers-she was English, I was history. We both did student teaching the Spring semester of our senior year. She loved it, and I ran screaming from the classroom. I hated it-didn't like dealing with the crap from the kids, didn't like dealing with the crap from the parents, etc... No amount of vacation time, benefits package, or anything else would compel me to stay in the profession. Seven years later she is still teaching, has a Masters in Writing, and is certified to teach special education which she also loves, and I am in a regular nine to five job with not a lot of holidays off and a pretty standard benefits/vacation package. We are both very happy now. To say that any idiot with a pulse can go into teaching and stay in for the benefits and Summers off is ridiculous.
Don't take it so personal, i said "there were exceptions". Your wife is one of them, congrats.
Rate this post positively

 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:05 AM
 
Location: NJ
516 posts, read 893,090 times
Reputation: 479
Just to add my two cents from discussions with interviewers and admissions officers at my alma mater: colleges want to accept students who they think will fit in well and succeed at that school. There definitely is a list of top high schools in each region covered by the officers who have a history of producing well-prepared students who can stand up to the rigors of the freshman experience and flourish. So in the example of West Windsor vs Mediocre school who has maybe 1 kid enroll at the college in the last decade with exact same credentials, I've heard that the college is more apt to take the WW kid in case the other kid doesn't adjust well.

And no, while calc is calc theoretically, when you make a high school course out of it, not all classes are created equal! If you look at average AP scores for a "good" high school vs a mediocre or bad HS, you'll notice a 1) a huge difference in fraction of class taking the test (indicating the curriculum in the worse school did not cover enough material for the students to feel comfortable taking the test) and 2) lower average school at the average school. College admission officers know this well.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:09 AM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,858 posts, read 9,211,838 times
Reputation: 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyStarksNJ View Post
Don't take it so personal, i said "there were exceptions". Your wife is one of them, congrats.
I was just trying to illustrate that your point was invalid. People like my wife are not exceptions, they're the norm, by and large. Teaching, IMHO, sucks. Especially now-can you imagine dealing with the kids of parents who obsess on this forum over school ranking? I'm not sure what's worse, the kids whose parents don't care about their education at all, don't show up to conferences, and take no interest in their child's education, or the ones who do their kids' 3rd grade science project for them, and then threaten to have the teacher fired when the teacher finds out and gives the kid a zero.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:14 AM
 
1,041 posts, read 2,820,245 times
Reputation: 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsPiggleWiggle View Post
Just to add my two cents from discussions with interviewers and admissions officers at my alma mater: colleges want to accept students who they think will fit in well and succeed at that school. There definitely is a list of top high schools in each region covered by the officers who have a history of producing well-prepared students who can stand up to the rigors of the freshman experience and flourish. So in the example of West Windsor vs Mediocre school who has maybe 1 kid enroll at the college in the last decade with exact same credentials, I've heard that the college is more apt to take the WW kid in case the other kid doesn't adjust well.

And no, while calc is calc theoretically, when you make a high school course out of it, not all classes are created equal! If you look at average AP scores for a "good" high school vs a mediocre or bad HS, you'll notice a 1) a huge difference in fraction of class taking the test (indicating the curriculum in the worse school did not cover enough material for the students to feel comfortable taking the test) and 2) lower average school at the average school. College admission officers know this well.
The AP exams are the same! Again, you are bringing into the equation how the rest of the class does. how many kids take the class, is irrelevant. Why do I care if 25% or 50% or 10% take the exam? Again, all you are pointing out is the socio economic differences in a particular region.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:18 AM
 
1,041 posts, read 2,820,245 times
Reputation: 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
I was just trying to illustrate that your point was invalid. People like my wife are not exceptions, they're the norm, by and large. Teaching, IMHO, sucks. Especially now-can you imagine dealing with the kids of parents who obsess on this forum over school ranking? I'm not sure what's worse, the kids whose parents don't care about their education at all, don't show up to conferences, and take no interest in their child's education, or the ones who do their kids' 3rd grade science project for them, and then threaten to have the teacher fired when the teacher finds out and gives the kid a zero.
Listen I agree with you, I wouldnt want to teach. But I said, FROM MY EXPERIENCE. I'm being honest, I have yet to run into a HS teacher who has a PHD from Cal Poly. The only reason i even brought up the point was to debunk the school nazi's who use the "better teacher" angle.

Don't get it twisted, a lot of this better school BS also has to do with parental ego stroking. A lot of folks love saying they live in town X, county X and need to justify the gross over paying in housing/taxes needed to get that.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,858 posts, read 9,211,838 times
Reputation: 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyStarksNJ View Post
Listen I agree with you, I wouldnt want to teach. But I said, FROM MY EXPERIENCE. I'm being honest, I have yet to run into a HS teacher who has a PHD from Cal Poly. The only reason i even brought up the point was to debunk the school nazi's who use the "better teacher" angle.
I get it, and I agree with you on that. Why would a K-12 teacher go for a Ph.D? I've seen K-12 teachers with Ed.Ds, which are basically BS and a way to bump yourself up on the payscale. An actual subject area Ph.D takes 10 years to get and can cost a hundred thousand dollars. Unless you're going into a profession where the earning potential is going to be starting in the six figure range it would hardly be worth it. A first year teacher with a Ph.D which would basically put them on the scale at Masters Degree + 30 credits might start at $60K in a good district and hit $100K after 20 years of service. Good luck paying those student loans...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyStarksNJ View Post
Don't get it twisted, a lot of this better school BS also has to do with parental ego stroking. A lot of folks love saying they live in town X, county X and need to justify the gross over paying in housing/taxes needed to get that.
Exactly.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:47 AM
 
357 posts, read 967,835 times
Reputation: 218
I think we are arguing the same point.

However, straight A is not the end all be all. I know a valedictorian at a decent school that got into every IVY she applied to and I know a valedictorian in a similar district that did not.

Leadership, extra curriculars, volunteer, etc etc etc matter too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyStarksNJ View Post
BS

Obviously a kid who took a non college prep track that included basket weaving, shop, gym, and other fluff is not going to get into Harvard even if they had all A's, but if the kid at Englewood took AP courses, scored in the highest percentile of SAT etc, why wouldn't they have an equal shot? I'm an engineer, guess what Calc is calc. Physics is Physics, Thermo is Thermo, Dynamics is Dyamics. Whether its taught here, or some area in Northern India. That's the whole point of STANDARDIZED test scores, an EVEN playing field.

You think a college admin officer doesnt have bias as well. For example, two kids, equal AP test scores, equal SAT scores, equal everything. One kid goes to West Windsor, the other goes to Mediocre High NJ. WW kid is ranked top 18% (because everyone at that school is a genius (), Mediocre high kid is ranked top 5% (because Mediocre High). Which kid is getting the benefit of the doubt? The kid at WW who probably grew up wealthy with every opportunity handed to him, or the kid who succeeded despite the trials and tribulations of going to medicore high Nj?

Now, I am not saying send your kid to Camden High, I am talking about averages here. If the high school is in the top 2/3's in NJ, offers some AP courses, and you take an active role, the kid can succeed.

And please lets drop the "better teachers". Every kid that I went to high school that is now a teacher, weren't exactly "stellar" students. They go into teaching for the summers off/holidays and Benefits. I know this is a massive generalization, and I am sure there are some exceptions, but it is what it is.

Here in NJ, all "better school district" means is higher number of families/students with the "means" (i.e wealth) to provide better opportunities.

These kids are tracked, your genius at mediocre high wont be in the same class as the "shop" kids. I really am puzzled why so many school nazi's on this board care what the bottom half of a school is doing? What impact does that kids test scores have on your kids?
Rate this post positively
 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:53 AM
 
2,535 posts, read 6,187,003 times
Reputation: 1595
Anecdotal examples are great to show the what-ifs and exceptions but do little to answer the OP's original question which was: "good" schools and "bad" schools: does it matter? and as a whole, based on the statistics and other reasons stated above, for the vast majority,the answer is clearly and decidedly yes.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 07-26-2013, 10:59 AM
 
857 posts, read 1,898,337 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdstyles View Post
Anecdotal examples are great to show the what-ifs and exceptions but do little to answer the OP's original question which was: "good" schools and "bad" schools: does it matter? and as a whole, based on the statistics and other reasons stated above, for the vast majority,the answer is clearly and decidedly yes.
so, you are saying definitively that correlation implies causation in this case?
Rate this post positively
 
Old 07-26-2013, 11:01 AM
 
206 posts, read 493,000 times
Reputation: 146
Tony you're crazy if you don't think there can be massive differences in teacher quality. Again, just going off my own personal experience, there was tremendous difference and it had a direct impact on how much i learned in the class. Great teachers can make an amazing impact on a student's life/trajectory. Your point might be that a higher-rated district doesn't necessarily have better teachers (just richer and more involved parents), and teacher quality is something that can't be proven by district summary stats because of all the confounding variables. That, i would agree with. However, if you really think 90% of teachers are created equal and thus it doesn't matter where you go to school, you're very very wrong (at least for some types of kids).
Rate this post positively
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:04 PM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top