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Old 11-19-2007, 09:14 AM
 
544 posts, read 1,058,433 times
Reputation: 242

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Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
You know it always amuses me when people go on and on about how much teachers make.

I guess it's okay for people to be paid well as long as they're entertaining us.
I understand your point and I agree that he most likely purposely misinterperted what you were trying to say. In the end all the money comes from the same place. Sure NBA, NFL players and the such are paid by teams, but we do pay for the stadiums, the extra police force, and so on and so on. It says something about the country when schools are 50 years olf but every 5 years they are improving pisons and football stadiums.

I don't think teachers are overpaid. My sister is a teach at a urban middle school, and her day never ends at 3. She is always mentoring, tutoring, doing test prep, planning field trips, trying to get guest speakers to come, visitng parents, grading papers, researching ways to teach her students...her job doesn't end when she walks out of the school.

I on the other hand work in IT tech for a software company, walked in making $40 plus right out of college and at 5pm my job ends regardless of what's going on in the rest of the world.

But to keep from fueling a debate - life is unfair. You wanna complain about overpaid govt jobs? What about the people at the DMV who get paid around 40K and all they need is a driver's license and GED? Or the data entry for public assistance programs that get paid $18 hourly? Let's not even talk about how much FEMA pays their "field techs" who drive to your house and say " did you use the money to fix your roof or to buy that new camry in your driveway?"

what will happen is teachers salaries won't rise, people will stop majoring in education and go to other fields, then we'll have a generation of stupid adults.
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:27 AM
 
Location: High Bridge
2,736 posts, read 9,670,841 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLater View Post
I understand your point and I agree that he most likely purposely misinterperted what you were trying to say. In the end all the money comes from the same place. Sure NBA, NFL players and the such are paid by teams, but we do pay for the stadiums, the extra police force, and so on and so on. It says something about the country when schools are 50 years olf but every 5 years they are improving pisons and football stadiums.
No, no misinterpretation. Deals are made with stadiums where portions are paid by the local gov, as mentioned to generate tourism. The police force, and the "so on" you mentioned is offset by the tourism generated, as incoming tax dollars (atleast, this is the intention).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLater View Post
I don't think teachers are overpaid. My sister is a teach at a urban middle school, and her day never ends at 3. She is always mentoring, tutoring, doing test prep, planning field trips, trying to get guest speakers to come, visitng parents, grading papers, researching ways to teach her students...her job doesn't end when she walks out of the school.
It does for many. I'm 26. I haven't been out of school so long that I'm remembering it with tinted glasses.... and many should not be teachers, and tenure is still a load of crap. So your sister is a good teacher - good, we could use more. Unfortunately, the teacher's union is currently preventing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLater View Post
I on the other hand work in IT tech for a software company, walked in making $40 plus right out of college and at 5pm my job ends regardless of what's going on in the rest of the world.
Really? No deadlines to meet? No managers saying "I need this emailed to me before I come in tomorrow, or else"? No clients with some odd bug you need to fix before all hell breaks loose, because your software's bug is costing your client money?

Sounds like a dream IT job to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLater View Post
But to keep from fueling a debate - life is unfair. You wanna complain about overpaid govt jobs? What about the people at the DMV who get paid around 40K and all they need is a driver's license and GED?
We complain about that too. Well, I complain that there is a physical DMV in the first place, but thats OT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLater View Post
what will happen is teachers salaries won't rise, people will stop majoring in education and go to other fields, then we'll have a generation of stupid adults.
Too late, theres plenty out there already.
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:40 AM
 
544 posts, read 1,058,433 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuCullin View Post
Really? No deadlines to meet? No managers saying "I need this emailed to me before I come in tomorrow, or else"? No clients with some odd bug you need to fix before all hell breaks loose, because your software's bug is costing your client money?

Sounds like a dream IT job to me.
Gee, you're an expert on teaching and IT jobs as well? You must be extremely well paid, which I find remarkable since you had such a lukewarm education from your "warm bodies".

Of course I have deadlines, but I also am giventime to meet them. I've never had a manager give me an "or else", and the majority of my clients also end their business day at 5pm so who's going to call? And if they do call we have afterhours support - that work AFTER hours. I've been here for 7 years and we've never had a problem that required me to work an extreme amount of overtime or take my work home with my unless I chose to do so, and I've never had to break up fights between clients, console a client who has gotten pregnant or contracted an STD, be a character witness for a client in court, or explain to a parent why the client didn't graduate with their class.
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:53 AM
 
Location: High Bridge
2,736 posts, read 9,670,841 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLater View Post
Gee, you're an expert on teaching and IT jobs as well? You must be extremely well paid, which I find remarkable since you had such a lukewarm education from your "warm bodies".
I'm a self-taught college dropout and former student (ie: I know what teachers taught me, and what they didn't). I work as an audiovisual, telecommunications, and information systems consultant. Started coding at 8, and have been active in the open source community since I was about 13ish. For my daily job, I work on projects being designed and built, like arenas, schools, colleges, etc. So I know a few things about IT & construction also.

Additionally, my high school courses were either AP or honors. One teacher, whom I corrected for her historical inaccuracy, "lost" my homework and effectively failed me for AP US History (D gives credit, but another year of US History required). I received a 5 on the AP test, and a D in the class - does that tell you anything?

I think I have enough experience from school to comment on teachers from a supposedly "good" school system, and more than enough to comment on AV, IT, IS, and construction - you know, since people pay me to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLater View Post
I've never had to break up fights between clients, console a client who has gotten pregnant or contracted an STD, be a character witness for a client in court, or explain to a parent why the client didn't graduate with their class.
Interesting. Do you get tenure in your IT job? What about your benefits package? Pension? Guaranteed annual wage increases? Does your company have to be profitable (or, atleast, have money) for you to get paid?

I highly doubt we'll see eye-to-eye, but atleast bring all the facts to the table.
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:23 AM
 
276 posts, read 1,458,858 times
Reputation: 166
There are some excellent teachers out there. Most are not just "warm bodies" handing out assignments. Bad ones do exist, but I think thats in every profession, no?

My main issue with teachers salaries is the sheer TIME they spend in the classroom. 50K a year does sound low for a college educated professional in NJ. But when you have at least 12 weeks off a year and additional PAID time off its just not comparable.

You can't compare teachers salaries to local law enforcement and fire personnel because many of them are not college-educated.

A better example would be the State Police. The starting salary for a NJ State Trooper is $58,748.29. They don't take summers off. They are all college educated professionals. Not to mention the risk to their own lives they incur. Are you seriously suggesting that we pay teachers (who work much less hours)more than troopers?
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:56 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,690,922 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by kristin1 View Post
There are some excellent teachers out there. Most are not just "warm bodies" handing out assignments. Bad ones do exist, but I think thats in every profession, no?

My main issue with teachers salaries is the sheer TIME they spend in the classroom. 50K a year does sound low for a college educated professional in NJ. But when you have at least 12 weeks off a year and additional PAID time off its just not comparable.

You can't compare teachers salaries to local law enforcement and fire personnel because many of them are not college-educated.

A better example would be the State Police. The starting salary for a NJ State Trooper is $58,748.29. They don't take summers off. They are all college educated professionals. Not to mention the risk to their own lives they incur. Are you seriously suggesting that we pay teachers (who work much less hours)more than troopers?
so let's raise the starting salary of troopers, i'm sure that'll appease the whiners on this board.

i can't believe the pettiness, jealously and childish comments in this thread. so many sound like bunch of 3 year olds.. "Wahhhhhhh, a teacher makes more than me and my job is SOOOOOO much more important". NEWSFLASH: LIFE ISN'T FAIR, and everyone has a CHOICE - become a teacher! If people can't see that paying teachers a decent (and $50K is DECENT, not outrageous) wage is better in the long run for EVERYONE, well, I don't know what to say. Yeah, I agree we can do away with tenure, and revamp the pay for performance model, but those I'm sure those who are really opposed to tenure are working for reform. Wait, complaining and bit***** is so much more productive.

The victim mentality in this thread and on this board is really over the top. "Teachers have it better, I'm stuck here, I can't move, I can't retire, we're screwed, blah blah blah." GMAFB. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Don't like your lot in life? CHANGE IT!

Whew, I feel better.

ETA - most of this isn't directed at the poster I responded to.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:12 PM
 
85 posts, read 305,079 times
Reputation: 48
Teachers deserve every dime of their salary and are grossly underpaid and underappreciated. Adequate salaries attract the best candidates making for the start of better school systems.

Q: What is the typical first question out of a homebuyer's mouth?

A: Does this town have a good school system?

Also towns with better school systems have a tendency to have higher resale value. Just look at most of the towns in Northern Bergen County...a 4BR/2.1 BA colonial that needs total updating will STILL get a pricetag of over $700K. If NJ would take a look at all the unnecessary government positions and just fire all the slackers, we'd all be better off. But leave the teacher's salaries alone or raise them. Either that or watch your property values decline further. It all ties in together.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:21 PM
 
Location: High Bridge
2,736 posts, read 9,670,841 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
If people can't see that paying teachers a decent (and $50K is DECENT, not outrageous) wage is better in the long run for EVERYONE, well, I don't know what to say. Yeah, I agree we can do away with tenure, and revamp the pay for performance model, but those I'm sure those who are really opposed to tenure are working for reform.
I'm not whining that they have it better - I'm complaining about wasted money. $50k isn't where it stops - salary is a smallish chunk of what teachers get paid. From my tax dollars.

Which is why I complain to my "representatives" in office, as well as here.

I have a pet peeve about bad information - which is why yes, I will continue to correct people about a subject I know (ie: stadiums and tax dollars).
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,200 posts, read 18,376,564 times
Reputation: 6655
I have a pet peeve too but I guess if I said what it was I'd probably be kicked off the boards You know that expression "the one who proclaims innocence first, is usually guilty? I didn't see tahiti called any one particular person a whiner but someone chose to answer defensively....hmmmm...i wonder how long it will be before a post answers this one.

Well I guess the only advice I can give you is if you think teachers are overpaid, move somewhere else. Move to West Orange County where teachers are paid less. Of course, most of the schools are F schools and surrounded by low income housing. And I'm sure the majority of the students skip school in favor of breaking into cars and homes and stealing all your valuables. But at least you'll be getting your money's worth out of the educational system and everyone will be happy.

Last edited by nat_at772; 11-19-2007 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:44 PM
 
Location: High Bridge
2,736 posts, read 9,670,841 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
I have a pet peeve too but I guess if I said what it was I'd probably be kicked off the boards You know that expression "the one who proclaims innocence first, is usually guilty? I didn't see tahiti called any one particular person a whiner but SOMEONE chose to answer defensively....hmmmm
From the other posts made by others, I think tahiti's comment is a bit off from the general comments of others. I never mentioned my money, my IRA, etc, did I? Or say that they have it better than I do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
Well I guess the only advice I can give you is if you think teachers are overpaid, move somewhere else. Move to West Orange County where teachers are paid less. Of course, most of the schools are F schools and surrounded by low income housing. And I'm sure the majority of the students skip school in favor of breaking into cars and homes and stealing all your valuables. But at least you'll be getting your money's worth out of the educational system and everyone will be happy.
I personally don't need good schools as I have no children. However, you're suggesting that bad schools make bad neighborhoods.... even though its typically the other way around.

Sooooo........

I'm quite happy where I'm at. Which has a decent school system, a somewhat reasonable payscale for the teachers, and a working regional high school system. Oh, and the town is chock *full* with whiners like me, who don't like paying more than something is actually worth.
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