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Old 11-19-2007, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,200 posts, read 18,391,525 times
Reputation: 6655

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuCullin View Post
I personally don't need good schools as I have no children. However, you're suggesting that bad schools make bad neighborhoods.... even though its typically the other way around.
Gee you are a chockfull of ....knowledge aren't you. No I wasn't implying that bad schools make bad neighborhoods. I was being sarcastic. Try looking it up, before you go into a long detailed post of how I'm providing misinformation about how bad schools ruin good neighborhoods.

Oh well, I see that this conversation has gotten away from the point of the OP so I guess I'll just keep my misinformed views to myself and go to another thread, where hopefully the posters aren't so .... knowledgable.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:03 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,715,087 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuCullin View Post
I'm not whining that they have it better - I'm complaining about wasted money. $50k isn't where it stops - salary is a smallish chunk of what teachers get paid. From my tax dollars.

Which is why I complain to my "representatives" in office, as well as here.

I have a pet peeve about bad information - which is why yes, I will continue to correct people about a subject I know (ie: stadiums and tax dollars).
then i'm not talking about you, am i....

but i will say *we* (as in taxpayers and consumers) pay for EVERYTHING, in one way or another. whether it's professional player's salaries, CEO's fat bonuses, teacher or cops, it all falls on the consumer/taxpayer.

i sound like NJKate now, but look at the admin salaries and lack of consolidation, rather than teacher's salaries.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:12 PM
 
857 posts, read 2,003,963 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
so let's raise the starting salary of troopers, i'm sure that'll appease the whiners on this board.

i can't believe the pettiness, jealously and childish comments in this thread. so many sound like bunch of 3 year olds.. "Wahhhhhhh, a teacher makes more than me and my job is SOOOOOO much more important". NEWSFLASH: LIFE ISN'T FAIR, and everyone has a CHOICE - become a teacher! If people can't see that paying teachers a decent (and $50K is DECENT, not outrageous) wage is better in the long run for EVERYONE, well, I don't know what to say. Yeah, I agree we can do away with tenure, and revamp the pay for performance model, but those I'm sure those who are really opposed to tenure are working for reform. Wait, complaining and bit***** is so much more productive.

The victim mentality in this thread and on this board is really over the top. "Teachers have it better, I'm stuck here, I can't move, I can't retire, we're screwed, blah blah blah." GMAFB. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Don't like your lot in life? CHANGE IT!

Whew, I feel better.

ETA - most of this isn't directed at the poster I responded to.
Um, I don't think that folks on here ('whiners' as you put it) are angry that teachers make more than them. It's because our tax dollars are being used to pay them. In my experiences, MOST (i'd say well over 90%, in fact), of teachers are people who
a) just weren't very good at anything else
b) want to work short hours and have summers off
c) prefer steady, guaranteed pay increases over merit-based compensation.
d) etc

Don't get me wrong - a teacher who is dedicated, genuinely interested in educating their students, and is willing to do what it takes to help students who need some extra attention is worth far more than 50k. But how many of them do that?
The whole system is messed up - we should be paying our teachers much more but it should be much harder to become one. we should also require continuing evaluations, by means of periodic testing or some other. Also add some merit based incentives (i realize how difficult this is in education), and do away with tenure.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes + some
2,885 posts, read 1,988,658 times
Reputation: 346
I am pretty sure I know to whom Tahiti was referring and it wasn't you Cucullin. Just someone who sounds like he envies teachers (and obviously knows nothing about the profession and compares apples to oranges) but who didn't go to college to get the education for it.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:22 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,715,087 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by jy_2007 View Post
Um, I don't think that folks on here ('whiners' as you put it) are angry that teachers make more than them. It's because our tax dollars are being used to pay them. In my experiences, MOST (i'd say well over 90%, in fact), of teachers are people who
a) just weren't very good at anything else
b) want to work short hours and have summers off
c) prefer steady, guaranteed pay increases over merit-based compensation.
d) etc

Don't get me wrong - a teacher who is dedicated, genuinely interested in educating their students, and is willing to do what it takes to help students who need some extra attention is worth far more than 50k. But how many of them do that?
The whole system is messed up - we should be paying our teachers much more but it should be much harder to become one. we should also require continuing evaluations, by means of periodic testing or some other. Also add some merit based incentives (i realize how difficult this is in education), and do away with tenure.
my experience is the exact opposite - who's right? i have yet to meet a truly awful, horrendous teacher that wasn't worth at least 50k. back when i was in school? maybe, but that was the stone age.

i also know a lot of teachers who WORK during the summer.

teacher do get tested, to the best of my knowledge.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:23 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,715,087 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillietta View Post
I am pretty sure I know to whom Tahiti was referring and it wasn't you Cucullin. Just someone who sounds like he envies teachers (and obviously knows nothing about the profession and compares apples to oranges) but who didn't go to college to get the education for it.
i actually don't have one particular poster in mind - so many were "whiny" i didn't take note of the authors.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,200 posts, read 18,391,525 times
Reputation: 6655
Quote:
Originally Posted by jy_2007 View Post
In my experiences, MOST (i'd say well over 90%, in fact), of teachers are people who just weren't very good at anything else
You know what they say " those who can't do, teach" that saying had to come from somewhere

It's like that in college. You can always tell the difference between the professors who actually worked in their field and those who just teach it. I agree not everyone is cut out to be a teacher. For a lot of people in my major, teaching was a "backup plan" just in case nothing else worked out.

But it's easy for them to get teaching jobs because they're in such high demand. And they're in such high demand because a good number of the teacher pool retires or switches careers every year, because they feel underpaid or undervalued or teaching just isn't what they thought it would be. So the goverenment tries to make it more attractive to draw in those good teachers, and we all verbalize our unhappiness over salaries, benefits, etc.

It's a conundrum one that will never make everyone happy but always gives us something to talk about
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:38 PM
 
Location: High Bridge
2,736 posts, read 9,676,738 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
Gee you are a chockfull of ....knowledge aren't you. No I wasn't implying that bad schools make bad neighborhoods. I was being sarcastic. Try looking it up, before you go into a long detailed post of how I'm providing misinformation about how bad schools ruin good neighborhoods.
Oh, I see. So then... low income areas, means lower pay for teachers, which implies a bad school?

Hmm... I guess I don't understand how some Newark schools have a higher literacy rate than say... Somerset County. But I supposed I'm just chock full of... knowledge that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
Oh well, I see that this conversation has gotten away from the point of the OP so I guess I'll just keep my misinformed views to myself and go to another thread, where hopefully the posters aren't so .... knowledgable.
Ah. So then, I'm being difficult because of the facts then. Gotcha. Well, have a good one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
then i'm not talking about you, am i....
Well I guess not

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
but i will say *we* (as in taxpayers and consumers) pay for EVERYTHING, in one way or another. whether it's professional player's salaries, CEO's fat bonuses, teacher or cops, it all falls on the consumer/taxpayer.
But remember, as taxpayers we get to vote for a representative to decide how our tax money is spent. As consumers, we get to "vote" with each and every dollar. Unfortunately, our representatives haven't been using our dollars very well

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
i sound like NJKate now, but look at the admin salaries and lack of consolidation, rather than teacher's salaries.
Mmm.... superintendants of 3 schools making $150k... secretary for same making $105k.... supporting staff of the secretary making a combined $180k on top of that...

All with pensions. Which is what I take the most issue with. Look to companies that used to offer pensions... they don't work out well in the long run. Costs increase too drastically, people are living longer, etc. And, imho, IRA's and 401k's add a degree of personal responsibility towards money that I think makes for a better consumer/taxpayer/neighbor. (fiscal responsibility).
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:40 PM
 
687 posts, read 3,253,973 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
i also know a lot of teachers who WORK during the summer.
Absolutely. Most young (as in under 30) teachers I know work during the summer. Whether they tutor, teach summer school, work at a summer camp, bar tend, or lifeguard, most are doing something to make money. The older teachers I know tend to work on professional development by taking courses or attending workshops. Perhaps I just know a whole lot of super-motivated people, but I really don't think that's the case.

In terms of the "time off," I would say most professionals get a decent amount of vacation, paid holidays, etc... My DH gets 6 weeks of paid vacation, 10-12 holidays, and comp time out the wazoo, and he works for a Big Four accounting firm. If he'd only use it.

I think if the time off was that desirable, everybody and their brother would be signing up to become a teacher.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:43 PM
 
Location: New Jersey/Florida
5,818 posts, read 12,638,034 times
Reputation: 4414
The original post was about the STARTING salaries of teachers being 50K not are teachers worth 50K. We"All of us" went into other directions but thats fine. Thats what the boards are all about. Some posters think the teachers are worth more, some agree with the starting salary, and some think its to much. Thats OK because we can see different views. MOST posts don't agree with the tenure part because the lazy teachers are rewarded just as much as the great teachers. Example on my end I get paid the same amount if I write 1,000 tickets or none. I could stay home for 6 months out sick and get paid. Or I could go to work and get paid the same. People are concerned about where there tax money goes because it is killing this state. Most posters are not jealous they just want to see there money used more efficiently. They don't want to be forced out of this state with property taxes ranging up to 20,000 and more.
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