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For those who favor same-sex marriage, he can say that--in the end--he saw the light.
For those who believe that this foreshadows the downfall of civilization, he can say that he had no choice, but to give in when the, liberals/Democrats on the NJSC handed down their decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park
Not necessarily.
I understand your point, and it is an intelligent and reasonable interpolation, however:
Many "liberals" and "same-sex marriage supporters" will feel what Christie has done is lame ... too little and too late.
If you access the web sites of NOM - the National Organization for Marriage, and the FRC - the Family Research Council - both Christian conservative and anti-marriage equality organizations - there already is outrage against Christie and the feeling he betrayed and abandoned them. It might prove to be a losing situation for him.
I appreciate the compliment, but I think that you misinterpreted my intent--at least to some extent. Personally, I don't think that most folks who favor same-sex marriage will believe that, "in the end, he saw the light". However, if Christie is making a campaign appearance before a liberal group in a couple of years, he just might make that claim.
Whether people believe him would depend on their awareness of events and their memory of them. Let's not forget that a significant portion of the public is always a bit behind the curve when it comes to reality. Recently, a poll indicated that something like 20% of the public is of the opinion that The ACA was repealed by Congress. Similarly, there is still a body of people who believe that WMDs were found in Iraq. In other words, never underestimate the lack of awareness of the public, and never underestimate a politician's ability to manipulate that lack of awareness to his own benefit.
In the end, he may not be able to play both sides of the street on this issue as he campaigns for the GOP nomination for POTUS, but that doesn't mean that he won't attempt to do so, and I was just trying to present a strategy that he might attempt to use in order to try come out of this situation looking good.
I don't think Christie cares. He doesn't exactly pull his punches. He has very clearly said he disagreed with the court rulings. He isn't stupid enough to come out down the road and say something different and give his opponents the chance to show him as a liar.
How could the rights be the same if one is a civil union and the other marriage? If the rights were the same, guess what, then there would no need for distinction. If the rights were the same, it would all be called marriage....
.....and oh wait, HAHA now it is!!!!!
oh so you have some kind of emotional interest in this issue so you think its ok for you to be obnoxious? "civil union" and "marriage" are words. the rights of the people involved in either situation could very well be exactly the same even if they are called something different. stop being a nut.
government is dumb but i figure the general logic is that as a society we believe that the best way to ensure a good future for our kids is to promote 2 parent families with a married mother and father. but once you take that away, it doesn't seem like government should be involved.
A mother and father, two fathers, two mothers, whatever. I'm a social progressive and extremely conservative concerning fiscal policy.
The absolute worst thing the Republican party could have done was to allow Jerry Falwell and the ""Moral majority "" to invade the bloodstream of the GOP and eat away at the membership like a cancer resulting in the rapidly dying husk of a party the GOP is today.
I'm an NRA life member, support much stronger welfare reform and believe we need to enforce immigration law and remove those that are here illegally.
I also know that the GLBT community are comprised of people that are denied their civil rights due to the draconian viewpoints of the extreme religious faction of the GOP.
It's this continued cancer that is still promoted by an ever shrinking religious minority that will ultimately destroy the party I was raised in.
No offense but you sound like you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for a response. "it will have an impact and it won't be on homosexuals"..... Listen, EVERYTHING has impacts. NOTHING is perfect. That's still not a good reason to stand in the way of gay marriage.
Everything is always so easy to put an arms length, until it impacts YOU personally. I have a loved one who is GLBT. Almost committed suicide in late teens. Why? Realization would never have what most wanted: a marriage, children, "normalcy". Shook me to the core.
There is never a good reason to tell someone "the law, God, society intended more for me than they did you." Love is love, plain and simple. If you can't understand that--if that somehow doesn't pass muster with you--then I guess we are done talking. I have a better chance of explaining the color violet to a blind person.
oh you have a loved on that's glbt. whatever, its cute how you have decided that you have a loved one so you will get all annoying and emotional and make this your issue. some people just love making it about them.
im not getting in the way of anything. im just discussing the issue. because you have gotten so nuts, you don't realize that people don't have to be just anti-gay marriage so you can call them names or pro gay marriage so you can say "yay you are awesome!" there can be discussion also about the impact this will have for better or worse. I understand that this is happening and its only a matter of time before it becomes standard to allow gay marriage. I just think it will have a greater impact than some people realize. you aren't really the type of person id want to talk about the issue with anyway so feel free to avoid me. I don't like to talk about issues emotionally and you have conditioned yourself to pretend that this is so emotionally important to you because you have some kind of desperation to have an issue. so you insult and use ridiculous platitudes instead of talking rationally.
Last edited by CaptainNJ; 10-22-2013 at 06:24 AM..
CaptainNJ, almost every new law or change of law has an impact. I don't disagree with that part of your statement at all. Yes things will change. But how could they possibly change in a negative way? What about this change could have a detrimental affect on society as a whole?
As a country, we have faced a LOT of similar issues. Women's rights, Blacks rights, immigrants rights, etc. While all were/are hard to accept by the majority, you can't say the minorities were better off before. You cant say that society is now worse off than it was before.
A person living in the United States can no longer hide their head in the sand or segregate themselves into a close knit society with no outside influence or interaction. Even the Amish (who held on longer than any other group I can think of) are facing a massive exodus from their ways by the younger generation. Im sure the ones still living the Amish lifestyle think the ones that leave are horrible people but, how can you or anyone on this board agree with them. We all know what its like to have the freedoms we have. Why wouldn't we want everyone to have those same freedoms?
Thats how ive looked at this issue from the beginning. Why should ANYONE in this country be oppressed for any reason. If you or I have a certain right as a citizen, then all citizens should have the same right. PERIOD.
I was thinking the same thing. His heart isn't into this debate. But he's gotta tow the tea party line.
the tea party is concerned with the economic issues not social. you mean the religious right line, not the tea party line.
legally i think gay marriage must happen as long as the government is regulating people's personal relationships. but i don't really think its a good thing. it hopefully wont turn out to be as tragic as the moral acceptance of single motherhood has been to our country but i think any impact it will make will be for the worse. but ill be happy if those gays can prove me wrong, maybe it can help get less adoptable kids adopted rather than being stuck in the system.
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