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That at least seems a little more sensible, but I still think it's a bad idea. How long is the school day in these other states, and where are you getting this information by the way, I'd like to look at it myself. Basically my philosophy is that if ain't broke... There are broken school systems in this state. They're by and large located in the major cities. Fix them and leave ours alone.
I searched around in the boards of the states that already have it. I also have a friend in N. Carolina so had some familiarity with the way it works. The kids don't have a longer day nor go to school more total days a year. There are many areas such as Galloway Township down here, which experienced huge growth in the past 10-15 years, who struggle trying to squeeze all the new students into existing schools. They also built a LOT of 55+ developments, and the budgets that include new schools always get voted down. This would offer areas like that a way to get many more students into their school district without having to build more schools nor have kids in trailers like they often are now. I feel like some seem to be having a knee-jerk "we don't like change" response. Why not find out specifics rather than condemning the whole idea without even knowing how it would work first?
Though I am not a resident of NJ at this moment, I too remember having a job as a freshman in high school. I went to Catholic HS and worked at the rectory to help with my tuition (my Dad had shattered his elbow, and had just lost his job at RCA after 21 years there, and Mom had just gone back to work full time) I don't know that making kids do more school at this point will matter. I not only enjoyed the time I had off, but needed it to work. As a side note, I went to kindergarten full time at Jessie Slover in South Amboy. WOW, I feel old!
I just went and searched a bit on the North Carolina board, and it seems the biggest reason states have it is to fit more kids into a school without having to build additional schools (and all those additional teachers). The kids are on different "tracks" so not all there at the same time, so a school that holds 2000 students can now have 2500 students without increasing classroom size. They don't do it in high school because of sports. It seems the kids still have about 7 weeks off in the summer, and some parents said they liked being able to go on vacation/to Disney in the off-season without pulling kids out of school. Seems like kids like it, you never go to school very long without having a break.
i wouldn't model any school policies after NC. if they do have extended days or years, it ain't helping them much, but that's because they're not doing very well with the normal hours anyways.
For sure every dam problem with kids today is blamed on the schools...does Mommy and Daddy not realize THEY are supposed to reinforce what a child learned all year in school, that THEY should check the summer reading list and make sure the kids are doing it. And heres a question IF YOU DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR CHILDREN why in the hell did you have them???
The majority of people in favor of longer day and longer calendar are the ones thinking how much they will save on daycare.
Kids need to be just that KIDS before they have to face the pressures of everyday life and having an 8 year old in school 9-10 hours a day and longer year to boot isn't going to produce Einsteins. Maybe if they went back to teaching like they did 25 years ago..rote memoraztion and cut that ridiculous method of teaching math, so many kids wouldn't be failing.
i think this is pretty cynical. the people who favor a longer day or longer calendar aren't doing it because they pulled it out of their arse yesterday...there's actual data that shows the benefits of it.
in some posts, we're talking about how millenials suck because their mommy's and daddy's are too soft on them...then we're saying kids need to be kids before they have to face the pressures of everyday life.
we're not looking to produce einsteins. kids aren't dumber today than they were 25 years ago...it's just that other areas of the world are passing us.
Someone always has to parade this one out. Want to know why this is? The kids in the Asian countries are simply taught to memorize things. That's it-just straight memorization. The GaoKao, which is the high stakes, make-or-break Chinese college entrance exam is the only thing they study for. Twelve years of education centered around one test-and people think standardized testing is overemphasized in this country? Of course they do better on math and science because they just memorize the test and pass it. This is why, in the world economy, the Chinese invent nothing and copy/mass produce everything. Their education system produces one dimensional minds incapable of innovation or creativity-just cogs in a machine. Is that what we should aspire to?
ok, let's assume all of this is right about the Chinese.
I had year round high school while living in India. It was actually more helpful than derogatory. Copy and mass produce, Yeah right . Lemme tell you something about Indian education. You are never ASKED to memorize. Its YOUR CHOICE whether you want to memorize or not. Most people do memorize because its simpler and faster, but its possible to separate yourself from the bandwagon and understand whats being taught. My entire educational success was based on 2 standardized tests. I cracked them both by spending sleepless nights understanding what was being taught instead of memorizing stuff. Often, we ran out of power and lights were out the night before exam. I studied with the help of candles. I was hard and difficult, but molded me into a sincere and determined individual who is able to manage tough situations. That's all I ever want to be in life. Kids here must toughen up. Make the education system more challenging. Don't give them the opportunity to quit when things get tough. Power through. After all, hard work is in every true American's blood. It should be put to good use from day 1 of school. Your love life can wait till you reach the 20's. Nothing harmful there, as higher level of maturity & self realization will help you find the right partner quicker.
nope - we only want americans to work hard once they turn 18. before then..."they're just kids!".
Ok, so now that we've established that there are more than a few folks on this board who are in support of year round school/extended day, how do we pay for:
The extended hours worked by teachers? Make arguments all you want about how they work part time already. There is no way Christie gets enough support to pass this without the NJEA's blessing, so they're going to get some concessions.
The air conditioning? If your motivation for year round school is better education you can't possibly expect kids to swelter in 90° heat while they're learning during the dog days of summer.
The massive overhaul of the entire system? Calendars, IT systems, payroll systems, and the list goes on, all revolve around 180 days straight and summers off.
How much of a property tax increase would you support? 5%? 10% 15% Remember that with maybe a few exceptions, the states that have done this already have totally different school funding structures that don't depend nearly as heavily on property taxes, plus many have county school districts as opposed to the insane patchwork system of 600+ fiefdoms in NJ.
I agree with Brady , we need to get full day kindergarten first. Many districts don't even have that, which blows my mind.
In my town, air conditioning would be HUGE. Many of our schools are so old that the electric wouldn't handle it. We are talking MAJOR renovations or possibly new schools. We have 17 elementary schools, and I think just a few have some air conditioning.
Ok, so now that we've established that there are more than a few folks on this board who are in support of year round school/extended day, how do we pay for:
The extended hours worked by teachers? Make arguments all you want about how they work part time already. There is no way Christie gets enough support to pass this without the NJEA's blessing, so they're going to get some concessions.
The air conditioning? If your motivation for year round school is better education you can't possibly expect kids to swelter in 90° heat while they're learning during the dog days of summer.
The massive overhaul of the entire system? Calendars, IT systems, payroll systems, and the list goes on, all revolve around 180 days straight and summers off.
How much of a property tax increase would you support? 5%? 10% 15% Remember that with maybe a few exceptions, the states that have done this already have totally different school funding structures that don't depend nearly as heavily on property taxes, plus many have county school districts as opposed to the insane patchwork system of 600+ fiefdoms in NJ.
paying for it is a whole different ballgame. and i don't think teachers work "part time". I get 4.5 weeks vacation, and 10 holidays at my job. the disparity between what a teacher works (nearly 10 months, plus breaks off and summer vacation off) is not as great as people like to paint it.
A/C? Do we debate how we'll pay for heat if they go to school in January and February?
Here....schedule the year so that the coldest months of the year are where chunks of the breaks fall, and the hottest month is where another chunk falls. I bet it balances out rather well. Throw some solar panels on the roof of the schools, and then maybe the summer cooling is cheaper than winter heating.
Teachers I know in NJ can opt to be paid year round...why would payroll systems need a massive overhaul? What overhaul of IT systems? Calendars? Outlook doesn't have 12 months programmed into it already? The list doesn't go on and on...
nope - we only want americans to work hard once they turn 18. before then..."they're just kids!".
I worked much harder when I was kid than after I started my career. Landscaping, construction, camp counselor, building maintenance, delivery driver, etc... Now I sit behind a desk all day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
A/C? Do we debate how we'll pay for heat if they go to school in January and February?
It's not the electric bill, its the massive refitting of buildings-electrical upgrades, etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
Here....schedule the year so that the coldest months of the year are where chunks of the breaks fall, and the hottest month is where another chunk falls. I bet it balances out rather well. Throw some solar panels on the roof of the schools, and then maybe the summer cooling is cheaper than winter heating.
Solar panels huh? Ok, take the cost of adding A/C and triple it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
Teachers I know in NJ can opt to be paid year round...why would payroll systems need a massive overhaul?
There are 600+ districts in the state and for every one you know of that offers it, there might be five that don't. I know of at least three.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
in some posts, we're talking about how millenials suck because their mommy's and daddy's are too soft on them...then we're saying kids need to be kids before they have to face the pressures of everyday life.
For the record I think that both of these are oversimplified and trite and I don't agree with either of them. Each is spun from a thread of truth though. I see the unscheduled time after school and during the summer as time for "guided practice" for the rest of life. Other folks want to see more formalized instructional time. I see the former as ultimately more valuable. At one point I held two jobs between my junior and senior year of high school. I worked hard at both which my parents encouraged, but they also encouraged me to find time (when appropriate) to enjoy myself, because I had the rest of my life to work. That's called balance.
Last edited by Badfish740; 01-15-2014 at 01:59 PM..
I have spoken with people in the know and they assure me this is just a political play---because the funding is simply not there.
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. Lemme tell you something about Indian education. You are never ASKED to memorize. Its YOUR CHOICE whether you want to memorize or not. Most people do memorize because its simpler and faster, but its possible to separate yourself from the bandwagon and understand whats being taught. My entire educational success was based on 2 standardized tests. I cracked them both by spending sleepless nights understanding what was being taught instead of memorizing stuff. Often, we ran out of power and lights were out the night before exam. I studied with the help of candles. I was hard and difficult, but molded me into a sincere and determined individual who is able to manage tough situations. That's all I ever want to be in life. Kids here must toughen up. Make the education system more challenging. Don't give them the opportunity to quit when things get tough. Power through. After all, hard work is in every true American's blood. It should be put to good use from day 1 of school. Your love life can wait till you reach the 20's. Nothing harmful there, as higher level of maturity & self realization will help you find the right partner quicker.
