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Old 02-24-2014, 10:15 AM
 
3,984 posts, read 6,956,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
^This is what the foreign posters were saying after our last election. They were laughing at the idea that people considered Obama "left-wing" or a "socialist". They said, "You don't have a left-wing party in the USA. You have a right-wing party and a far-right-wing party."
You get the Kenyan Socialist you deserve I suppose.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:48 AM
 
29,931 posts, read 24,696,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluekev View Post
Now that Obama has won 2 in a row. Colorado looks almost as blue as New Jersey with the recent legalization of pot; drawing in Liberals from all over the country. And Hillary looks unstoppable in 2016. Are we a left of center nation? Many claimed during the Bush years we were right of center. Has this changed?
Obama's win the first time was a reaction against GOP/GWB II, the democrats could have run a platform headed by Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck and were almost sure to win.

Having not learned anything the republicans handed Obama his second win on a silver platter in 2013, when by any reasonable measure of political history he should have lost. MR was a confused candidate that had to coral a party that was all over the place after a long and bitter nomination race.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:56 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,095,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Obama's win the first time was a reaction against GOP/GWB II, the democrats could have run a platform headed by Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck and were almost sure to win.

Having not learned anything the republicans handed Obama his second win on a silver platter in 2013, when by any reasonable measure of political history he should have lost. MR was a confused candidate that had to coral a party that was all over the place after a long and bitter nomination race.
you're probably right in a very primitive analysis of the elections, but i think it's far more complicated than that. I think that the nation as a whole is slightly left of center, but the politicians as a whole are slightly right of center. the main problem is, the media coverage focuses on the extremes almost entirely, so it's hard to see. but when you look at demographics i firmly believe if the electoral college was eliminated, you'd be seeing the "left" candidate winning national elections quite regularly. and if everyone voted, i think there's a lot out there that leads to about a 60-65% 'democrat' total in the final results. i put 'democrat' in quotes because the meanings of the parties have changed quite a bit in the past 30 years.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,099 posts, read 3,457,692 times
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Most people in CO are not as stereotypical 'democrat' as you'd think. They are more candid libretarian's, hence the legalization of pot in DEN (pretty cool actually.) The only reason CO went for Obama AGAIN is because of that suburban 'Denver Mom' vote. For some reason women just seem to like and trust Obama more.

NJ has been a blue state for over 20 years but only in a democratic party sense of nature. NJ is more liberal in terms of pension funds for state workers, but if you'd think they are "think out of the box" liberals like in CA or CO, think again. Pot will never be legalized in NJ.

For the record, I think I'm a pretty tolerant and liberal guy, but I can't stand Obama and the democratic party's agenda at the moment. That's just me. I'm fed up with young adults in my age group being overly agreeable with Obama (kind of like "oh well, he's our president, might as well trust him") as I find him to be as bad as Bush in many ways.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:01 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,095,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshflakes757 View Post
Most people in CO are not as stereotypical 'democrat' as you'd think. They are more candid libretarian's, hence the legalization of pot in DEN (pretty cool actually.) The only reason CO went for Obama is because of that suburban Denver Mom vote.

NJ has been a blue state for over 20 years but only in a democratic party sense of nature. NJ is more liberal in terms of pension funds for state workers, but if you'd think they are "think out of the box" liberals like in CA or CO, think again. Pot will never be legalized in NJ.

For the record, I think I'm a pretty tolerant and liberal guy, but I can't stand Obama and the democratic party's agenda at the moment. That's just me. I'm fed up with young adults in my age group being overly agreeable with Obama (kind of like "oh well, he's our president, might as well trust him") as I find him to be as bad as Bush in many ways.
i think there's a number of people who are just "ok" with basically everything he does, but i think a lot of his own supporters are unhappy with him as well.

what, specifically, do you take issue with him on?
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:07 AM
 
29,931 posts, read 24,696,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhelder View Post
If you think Hillary, Obama and others of that ilk are liberals, well... let's just say that my definition of the term must vary greatly from yours.

The legalization of pot in certain places and the increasing acceptance of same-gender relationships notwithstanding, true liberalism has been dead in America for at least 35 years.

There is no "Left" politically in America anymore. There is "Right" and "Righter".
America's "drug war" is an industry that has is seen largely as a failure. If you look at the vast sums spent versus total human and societal costs it just doesn't add up. The only ones benefitting are organized crime and others involved in in the production, distribution and so forth.

Pot is literally *everywhere*. You cannot walk down a street, go onto a college campus, or whatever without getting a whiff of the stuff. The reasons why hemp/marijuana were banned by the federal government were sketchy back in the day and remain so today. However if you allow the things to be grown, sold and so forth under regulation it can bring some balance to things *and* tax revenue.

As for same sex marriage quite a lot of that comes from the same Harvard, Yale, Princeton liberal/left along with certain sectors of the media aggressively promoting the thing as "natural" and a "civil right". it did not hurt that various powerful, influential and or wealthy persons (or their children) are gay and were tired of having said relationships deemed of lesser value, especially when it came to assets/property rights. That is what much of this debate boils down to, indeed was the basis for Windsor vs.
DOMA.

No couple *needs* a legal marriage to be automatically happy, however that institution does bestow a vast array of state and federal benefits which is what people want, a level playing field if you will.

Obama liberal? Give me a break, the man who many think can walk on water is just a politician like the rest. His "evolution" about gay marriage came when the LGBT community read him the riot act just as he was gearing up to run for re-election. Obama wanted their money and support so there you are. Same with Hispanic/Latinos (immigration), women (Larry Summers being forced down and Janet Yellen pushed forward for chair of the Fed), and so it goes.

Obama is not so much as liberal but wishy-washy. That is he does not make a decision until enough voices are heard and he sees which way the wind is blowing. Just like the governor in "Best Little Whorehouse In Texas" and his side-step dance.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,099 posts, read 3,457,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
i think there's a number of people who are just "ok" with basically everything he does, but i think a lot of his own supporters are unhappy with him as well.

what, specifically, do you take issue with him on?
--'Romneyizing" and lying about the Affordable Care Act.
--Benghazi
--Lack of leadership to effectively govern the house and senate.
--NDAA act of December 2011
--His sketchy ties to the Banks
--Increasing the national debt tenfold.

Really the biggest thing for me is him coming off as a weak leader and making a lot of empty promises that he couldn't deliver on.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:32 AM
 
29,931 posts, read 24,696,764 times
Reputation: 22715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshflakes757 View Post
--'Romneyizing" and lying about the Affordable Care Act.
--Benghazi
--Lack of leadership to effectively govern the house and senate.
--NDAA act of December 2011
--His sketchy ties to the Banks
--Increasing the national debt tenfold.

Really the biggest thing for me is him coming off as a weak leader and making a lot of empty promises that he couldn't deliver on.
Obama's problem (if you could call it that) is that lots of white liberals and others liked his "story" and thus he advanced through the political ranks virtually untested and unquestioned. In both his POTUS election campaigns the man said very little about anything other than in vague and broad generalities. What he did do was coast on "I'm not GWBII" or "I'm not Mitt Romney" and so forth.

Obama was a senator for a hot minute and a total naïf upon being elected POTUS. Nancy Pelosi ran things in his first term if anyone else and she and the liberal left side of the democratic party rolled Obama big time. A bulk of Obama's first term was an orgy of everything the liberal/left/democratic party has wanted for years but couldn't get to see daylight.

It didn't help matters that Obama surrounded himself with Clinton insiders and or others close to the democratic machine. That or they were his buddies/classmates from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia etc...
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,095,189 times
Reputation: 3729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshflakes757 View Post
--'Romneyizing" and lying about the Affordable Care Act.
--Benghazi
--Lack of leadership to effectively govern the house and senate.
--NDAA act of December 2011
--His sketchy ties to the Banks
--Increasing the national debt tenfold.

Really the biggest thing for me is him coming off as a weak leader and making a lot of empty promises that he couldn't deliver on.
i don't want to get into a long discussion but:

i agree about 'romneyizing' ACA, but i think if there was no compromise, nothing would have happened. I disagree about the 'lie'. I still think people are taking a quote from before the law was written and using it as a claim about what the law ended up being and then calling that a lie. the problem is, he did continue saying it, but under different context. they did write in provisions that would let you keep your health plan if you liked it...so long as the private companies still offered the product. he should have been clear about that, but i don't think he lied.

Benghazi? meh
I think he actually handles the house and senate well, given the dysfunction they display lately.
NDAA is made a bigger deal than it is.
Banks? i dunno about that.
National debt? it's mostly a continuation of policies he inherited, plus severely depressed tax revenues from the economic crash. he's hardly added any new spending.

I think he's delivered on many promises. I think history will judge him differently as a leader than the curren popular opinion.....
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,099 posts, read 3,457,692 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
i don't want to get into a long discussion but:

i agree about 'romneyizing' ACA, but i think if there was no compromise, nothing would have happened. I disagree about the 'lie'. I still think people are taking a quote from before the law was written and using it as a claim about what the law ended up being and then calling that a lie. the problem is, he did continue saying it, but under different context. they did write in provisions that would let you keep your health plan if you liked it...so long as the private companies still offered the product. he should have been clear about that, but i don't think he lied.

Benghazi? meh
I think he actually handles the house and senate well, given the dysfunction they display lately.
NDAA is made a bigger deal than it is.
Banks? i dunno about that.
National debt? it's mostly a continuation of policies he inherited, plus severely depressed tax revenues from the economic crash. he's hardly added any new spending.

I think he's delivered on many promises. I think history will judge him differently as a leader than the curren popular opinion.....
Benghazi? Meh? Are you kidding me?

And yes, he's handling the house and senate just fine with both his and the senate's stellar approval ratings...(roll eyes)

I think your post is exactly in line with what is wrong with many Obama apologists. They are not critical enough of his decisions as a leader, they just go with the flow.

I think you are one to give him the benefit of the doubt. I on the other hand am not hip to his BS which he's been touting for over 5 years.
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