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I just have a love and hate relationship with NJ lol . Everyone has their own opinion
oh i think most of us have a love/hate relationship with NJ. it's whether the things you love outweigh the things you hate. for me, I want 4 seasons. I want to live close to skiing. i also want to live in a "job center" where, if for some reason I lose my job, it would be relatively easy to find another one. my company relocated a bunch of positions to Tulsa and Orlando. Orlando wouldn't be terrible, but if you relo to Tulsa and get laid off in a year or 2 when they're done with all this restructuring, you're SOL. there's not a ton of companies to pick from in Tulsa. People can talk about "growing" cities all they want. But if you're in one of those growing cities and can't find a job, it isn't doing you much good. And what are we moving to those places? Low skilled, task oriented jobs, with a few managerial jobs to oversee them. Why are they keeping the higher skilled/higher education jobs in NJ? damned if i know!
i think it largely depends on the specific topic. trust me, i'm not a NJ apologist. I'm not from here, and have done my fair share of knocking NJ. There are things where we get much better service than other states, and there are things in which we don't. Everyone would love to get more for less $, but that doesn't typically happen. States that have lower taxes often have less services, not the same. States that have similar services for less taxes are typically lower cost states which have lower salaries, which is why it costs them less to provide those services. NJ has it's fair share of waste and corruption. We're also a very 'mature' state which means we've got a lot of older workers who will be retiring and collecting those pensions they accumulated.
And people are often fooled by states with lower taxes but higher fees for many things. Pennsylvania just tripled it's gasoline tax. You have to pay for a vehicle inspection in Pennsylvania, it's free in NJ. There's a lot of little things like that that make it much more complicated to compare states than just looking at income tax and property tax. Pennsylvania has a local income tax on top of the state income tax. No one ever mentions that when they say PA's income tax is lower than NJ's.
LOL I've never seen you knock NJ.
Your statements are largely, "Well NJ has this issue because of 'BLANK' but the reason is for 'BLANK' (SOMETHING OBVIOUS) and it really isn't that bad because of 'BLANK' so live with it."
Example:
"Well NJ allows higher pay for teachers because the taxes can provide such a service and it really isn't that bad because NJ is a liberal democratic type state."
Your statements are largely, "Well NJ has this issue because of 'BLANK' but the reason is for 'BLANK' (SOMETHING OBVIOUS) and it really isn't that bad because of 'BLANK' so live with it."
Example:
"Well NJ allows higher pay for teachers because the taxes can provide such a service and it really isn't that bad because NJ is a liberal democratic type state."
ummm.....i have a life outside of city-data. and you're free to look in any of the threads where i've criticized NJ drivers. i'm sure you can find some of me making fun of the jersey shore stereotype where it applies.
and, did you just make up a quote of what i supposedly have said? good job there.
ummm.....i have a life outside of city-data. and you're free to look in any of the threads where i've criticized NJ drivers. i'm sure you can find some of me making fun of the jersey shore stereotype where it applies.
and, did you just make up a quote of what i supposedly have said? good job there.
So drivers and the Jersey Shore? That's pretty much it.
What about the real issue: public workers BKing the state?
So drivers and the Jersey Shore? That's pretty much it.
What about the real issue: public workers BKing the state?
the issue of public workers (bankrupting?) the state is not as simple as you try to make it with that statement. for one, our state isn't going bankrupt. the state has a lot of assets. our balance sheet isn't as strong as it should be, but it's also not Detroit's. Politicians, voters, and public workers have all made those deals. I'm not a lifetime resident. I can't control what's happened in the past before I moved here. So I see no reason to **** and moan about things that have already happened. Instead, I'd like to see one of our governors grow a pair and actually use a realistic rate of return assumption for the pensions. We've had governor after governor that didn't make the state payment, kicking the can down the road. then corzine made a partial payment, and now i think christie has made 1 partial payment, and announced this year will be another partial payment. So, why say that the public workers are bankrupting the state when it's the idiot politicians who simply had to make the payments that the state was obligated to make?
now, we've put it off for so long that we dug ourself a hole. it's not a hole we can't work out of though. but now, it will likely involve some concessions from the public workers to give up some of the things that were promised to them as part of their compensation concessions over the years. crappy deal for them. but still, not terrible.
but, there's no one to blame but the voters. keep sending people who keep negotiating sweet deals yet avoid making payments into those sweet deals...and at some point, you're going to have to address it. Yet another thing left by the baby boomer generation to be cleaned up. so, we've got choices to make. but it's not like jersey is in a financial death spiral either. that's something people want you to believe so you vote certain ways. it's not that complicated. it's addressable. it won't be cheap. but, i like it here for now.
i highly doubt i'll retire here. but, i don't project that far out.
The pension was set years ago before unions. The unions did not have anything to do with the pension. In fact there are 10's of thousands of non-union workers in the pension and some of them are the individuals that you read about when the outrageous pension deals are written about.
Also has anyone read the link I put out. Read it for teachers and state workers the employers normal contribution is very low. The issue is the accrued contribution from all the years that were missed. If the State never missed they were only required to pay 4% of a teacher or state workers salary into the pension. Hardly excessive.
Also has anyone read the link I put out. Read it for teachers and state workers the employers normal contribution is very low. The issue is the accrued contribution from all the years that were missed. If the State never missed they were only required to pay 4% of a teacher or state workers salary into the pension. Hardly excessive.
Tom, you'd said this ad-nauseum and those who are open to understanding get it. Yet there are still many who refuse to listen to logic and facts and somehow believe that if they keep spouting it's the greedy cops/teachers/state workers who are solely responsible for the downfall of this state everyone will believe it. The sheer ignorance of the vocal few is mind boggling.
Freshflakes- what would you consider a middle class salary for a college graduate to be in NJ?
Right out of college in NJ? Around 30K is dirt poor which is what most would start at unless they are in engineering or finance. Most would live with their parents unless Daddy is giving them a check to support a city lifestyle.
40-45K is better in NY/NJ, but still scraping the barrell unless you have roommates. I'd say you'd live comfortably as a college graduate in NJ on 60-75K.
Here in LA wages are lower here, but COL is something like 15% lower than NYC metro area. You can stretch the dollar pretty well on 40K and still be saving money.
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