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So much of our tax money goes toward paying interest on past debts, and it gets worse every year. This is money that is going towards nothing right now. I don't know how this state is ever going to get out of this mess.
Also, the legislature just lifted the 2% cap on police and firefighters raises. Or, I should say, they let the cap expire. This was against the wishes of almost every town mayor in the state. How are they expected to keep property tax hikes below 2%, when the municipal workers are getting raises higher than that?
I would definitely like to see less debt taken at the local level. I'm not sure if it's a big problem in West Orange, but if we want to add something, it should be paid for in a very specific plan.
I wonder how much consolidation could help a town like West Orange. I imagine it would be a negative effect to whatever town we consolidate with. We have very little industrial tax base. Very few retail stores. So there's not a lot of tax base outside residential property owners. Our Mayor has been hosting some tax fact sessions. It's interesting, but of course, it's being told from his perspective. He's done a pretty good job at keeping us flat. I learned we have 97 full time police. Could we lessen that #? Maybe. I'm not sure. it's a town of nearly 50,000 people. Covers a large area. that's one police officer per 515 residents.
I'd love some ideas. if interest is a large expense, then ideas of figuring out how to cut that expense in the short term would be great.
The state of Georgia's schools are divided by counties, not towns. The schools I'm familiar with have amazing facilities with state of the art technology. My property taxes here are under $3000 for a much larger and newer house than the one I had in NJ where my taxes were $11000. Is this the answer for NJ? I don't know, but it works in Georgia.
what do those property taxes cover? also, how large are the populations of a Georgia county that is a "district"?
Well I just checked and as a tax haven Georgia destroys us. The question becomes do NJ residents want to operate like Georgia.
NJ budget is 31.6 billion, 12.4 billion from the feds Georgia spends 18.1 billion with 11.7 from the feds.
so for georgia, with a population of just under 10M, and according to the census, 25.1% of the population is under 18. NJ, population is 8.9M, with 22.9% under 18.
I wonder about teacher demographics? I would venture a guess that NJ has an older teacher population, which results in higher salaries? More retired teachers collecting pensions, maybe? Not sure how curriculum compares, but it would be interesting to see just the breakdown of demographics. The populations seem like a pretty good state-to-state comparison. We're spending $13.5B more than Georgia. What are we supposedly getting for that?
Now, granted, some things are going to simply be more expensive here because of COL. But I doubt our COL if 74% higher than Georgia.
There is a point of diminishing marginal returns of the economies of scale, after a point cost will rise. I am not advocating for the creation of a NYC equivalent district in NJ but rather the reduction of small overlap districts. We have more districts in the state of NJ than we have towns and we have a ton of towns considering the size of the state.
I believe that the 603/590 district number is correct based on this website.
To advocate my point I will highlight an example of districts I don't believe should exist:
Oradell public school district, k-6 district, has a Business administrator (BA) and superintendent, one school, spends over 1.2 million on administration costs annually. River Edge Elementary school district, two school, k-6 district, has a BA and superintendent, spends 1.7 million on administration annually. The districts combines forming the River Dell school district for 7-12, two schools, has BA and superintendent, spends 2.5 million on administration annually. For 5 schools, 3,500 students, have 3 superintendents, 3 BAs, 5.4 million on administration annually. If these three districts merged into one, only counting the elimination of two superintendents and 2 BAs, the towns would save approx. $650,000 a year and this doesn't even account for potential cost savings elsewhere.
There are countless examples of overlap districts in the state and it is ludicrous that we continue the system that is currently in place
have you pitched this plan to the residents of Oradell? I'm curious, how does the rest of NJ benefit? This is really just local savings right? Maybe some state savings?
have you pitched this plan to the residents of Oradell? I'm curious, how does the rest of NJ benefit? This is really just local savings right? Maybe some state savings?
These kind of saving can be had all across the state as there are countless examples of this kind of overlap I highlighted in Oradell. The rest of NJ benefits in following a similar consolidation plan where it makes sense. It would, as a whole, bring down the average property tax rate across the state. I chose this district essentially at random, I don't live in or know many people from Oradell it happened to be the first district I clicked on. Off the top of my head, living in Bergen county, it would make sense to consolidate the feeder schools into regional districts for Northern Highlands, Pascack valley/hills, Northern Calley district, Ramapo/Indian hills, Ridgefield, and Hackensack. Such a consolidation would save millions annually for local tax payers and help fight the exorbitantly high property taxes residents pay. I'm sure state aid could fall slightly but I wouldn't count on any significant savings on the state level.
I wonder if the same people that think our taxes should be at the same level of Georgia's want their NJ house values to be at the same level? When I watch the TV shows on HGTV the cost of homes in Georgia is 50% what a similar home in NJ would be.
NJ is expensive therefore public sector compensation is going to be higher. The big difference in Georgia is they have way less government.
I would definitely like to see less debt taken at the local level. I'm not sure if it's a big problem in West Orange, but if we want to add something, it should be paid for in a very specific plan.
Lots of debt for the downtown streetscaping, I believe.
Quote:
I wonder how much consolidation could help a town like West Orange. I imagine it would be a negative effect to whatever town we consolidate with. We have very little industrial tax base. Very few retail stores. So there's not a lot of tax base outside residential property owners. Our Mayor has been hosting some tax fact sessions. It's interesting, but of course, it's being told from his perspective. He's done a pretty good job at keeping us flat. I learned we have 97 full time police. Could we lessen that #? Maybe. I'm not sure. it's a town of nearly 50,000 people. Covers a large area. that's one police officer per 515 residents.
Yeah, we're a large town with low (ha ha, relatively) property values and no real retail/industrial base. And a lot of cops, but you suggest reducing the number and everyone thinks "blood in the streets", plus the police unions would freak. Same with firefighters. Then there's the middling-ranked school district which likes to gold-plate everything (yeah, let's get new generators for all the schools, never mind that Essex County already has an emergency shelter right at the arena) but if you say boo they say it's for the children.
So far we haven't quite gone over the edge into a spiral of falling property values leading to falling revenues, which lead to increased taxes and an even greater drop in property values (plus an increase in empty/foreclosed properties with tax liens). And we probably won't, not as long as the rest of the area is so high-priced that people come here as a second or third choice. I expect at least some relief from the new developments on the Livingston side of town -- they'll ultimately improve the schools' numbers as well as add property tax revenue (most of which will be wasted...). And maybe once they get the eyesore on Main Street converted to condos or apartments we'll actually have something down there. But I don't see a lot of relief.
Consolidation might help, but only if it consisted of our absorption into a better-run town. Are there any nearby? Livingston is really the only one big enough, but I don't know if they're actually better-run or just wealthier and better-endowed with commercial properties. And of course what would be in it for them, a border with Orange?
Mandatory consolidation of all services - public works, fire, police, schools - should be required for any adjoining towns with less than 15,000 in population. Right there we'd consolidate 1/2 of Bergen County's services. We'll be nice by allowing people to keep their town names & zip codes.
These kind of saving can be had all across the state as there are countless examples of this kind of overlap I highlighted in Oradell. The rest of NJ benefits in following a similar consolidation plan where it makes sense. It would, as a whole, bring down the average property tax rate across the state. I chose this district essentially at random, I don't live in or know many people from Oradell it happened to be the first district I clicked on. Off the top of my head, living in Bergen county, it would make sense to consolidate the feeder schools into regional districts for Northern Highlands, Pascack valley/hills, Northern Calley district, Ramapo/Indian hills, Ridgefield, and Hackensack. Such a consolidation would save millions annually for local tax payers and help fight the exorbitantly high property taxes residents pay. I'm sure state aid could fall slightly but I wouldn't count on any significant savings on the state level.
but what's the point of doing this exercise if you're not actually suggesting it to the people who control those towns/schools?
I wonder if the same people that think our taxes should be at the same level of Georgia's want their NJ house values to be at the same level? When I watch the TV shows on HGTV the cost of homes in Georgia is 50% what a similar home in NJ would be.
NJ is expensive therefore public sector compensation is going to be higher. The big difference in Georgia is they have way less government.
i don't disagree, but i wonder, how much of that $ difference is simply because a teacher makes $X in NJ and $Y in Georgia? Like I said in a previous post, we're spending about 75% more in absolute dollars. granted...building a school here is more expensive than building one in Georgia. There's a reason why the Marlin's stadium cost roughly half what Yankee Stadium did, and a large part of it is simply the labor costs and somewhat the material costs.
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