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1. You're arguing the merits of New Jersey by using New York as a proxy. New Jersey is not New York. It's a nearby city, yes, but it is NOT within New Jersey. I won't press this point though.
2. Looking at migration trends in the US, you will see that there has been a very SIGNIFICANT shift out of the NE, including NJ and NY, into Southern metros such as Houston, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc. People are starting to realize that the "amenities" in places like the NY metro are not enough to justify the ridiculous COL. You say people dream of living in NY more than other places, but based on the large number of people LEAVING the NJ-NY metro area for homes 10x the size at 1/3 the cost in the South, the statistics don't back that up. At the current rate of growth, places like Houston and Atlanta will actually surpass NYC in population within the next few decades, and businesses will follow.
The demographics are switching - the Southern states are seeing all of the growth now and the idea that New York City is some aspirational city that everyone wants to live in is outdated. In fact, I just read an article that listed Austin, TX as America's most aspirational city. Quality of life in this area is just not as high unless you are EXTREMELY high income. Someone on a 350K salary can live like royalty in Southern metros in a big, gated 8+ bedroom mansion. Here, they are apparently lucky if they can even find central AC
Lol, I am not arguing the merits of NJ. Where did that come from? Basic geography, and history, tells you that Northern NJ is very much tied to the city. It's closer to Manhattan than is most of NY State. And remember on which side of the river the Statue of Liberty is located!
I was explaining why it's so densely populated, which in turn explains why it is so expensive. And yes, I'm aware that some people are moving south and west. Yet you still can't get a 2 bedroom apartment in a good Manhattan neighborhood for under 4 grand, can you, so obviously quite a few people still want to live there, and when they want a sfh with a yard and good schools within commuting distance, many look to north Jersey. Just read the threads on this forum.
Your first argument is a bad one, and is also one others try to make sometimes and I'm tired of hearing it to be honest. No, NYC is not in NJ. But NJ is right across the river from New York and most of NJ is closer to NYC than the large majority of NY state is, so the argument that "NYC is NOT NJ" is irrelevant. Half of NJ is in NYC's metro region and there are a lot of people from NJ commuting to NYC for work. NYC is very culturally and economically tied to NJ, like it or not (and some people really don't like that fact). Yesterday, governors Christie and Cuomo held a joint meeting with Mayor de Blasio and others in the city to talk about the threat of terrorism to our area. PATH train, Holland and Lincoln Tunnels, GWB, our 3 area airports, to name a few potential NYC/NJ terror targets. No two states are closer at a metro area level, I like to argue. Now try to use your argument that NYC is not in NJ so NYC doesn't affect NJ COL. Come on. Manhattan is 20 miles from my house, Staten Island about 7, don't try to tell me that since NYC is in another state, it doesn't affect NJ and vice versa. NYC is a city that affects COL and QOL in its entire metro region - from NY suburbs to NJ and CT ones. That's how a metro works. And since NYC is a high demand city, the metro (anyone who lives within close proximity of the city) is also a high demand, expensive area. That line doesn't end at the NYS border.
Too soon to rep you again, but good post and sorry for repeating some of what you already said.
An estimated quarter million Jersey residents work in the city. 700 of the people who died in the WTC lived in NJ, and there's hardly a town in North Jersey that didn't get hit. It seems odd that someone would decide to move here yet doesn't know this basic information about the ties between the two places. Maybe the OP made a mistake in choosing to come here.
Too soon to rep you again, but good post and sorry for repeating some of what you already said.
An estimated quarter million Jersey residents work in the city. 700 of the people who died in the WTC lived in NJ, and there's hardly a town in North Jersey that didn't get hit. It seems odd that someone would decide to move here yet doesn't know this basic information about the ties between the two places. Maybe the OP made a mistake in choosing to come here.
No problem!
Very true. I wanted to bring up the over 700 NJ victims of 9/11, second only to NY and far above the casualties of all other states, even CT, but I was unsure of the sensitivity of it. But I'm glad you did because it is a great point. Also, the Port Authority of NY and NJ owns the WTC site...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI9045
You're both focusing on the first point even though I said I won't press it. I know they are tied and are a metro area. My main point was point two.
You won't press it, yet you brought it up and made it your first point no less.
About migration to the South and West, they can go - whatever. But NJ is still the densest state and NYC is still an expensive city - and people from all over the world are still moving there and are still willing to spend way too much on a closet they have to live in with 2 roommates. I agree with Mightyqueen here. This area is still highly desirable - and offers amenities a lot of other areas can't. Living beside, or in, the best city in the world has both its perks and drawbacks. It is what it is.
I know people who moved to NC because it is cheaper and they could build a bigger house for less than in NJ, but they say there's not as much to do down there - it's lacking in other aspects. They miss the area, especially the city.
You're both focusing on the first point even though I said I won't press it. I know they are tied and are a metro area. My main point was point two.
But YOU didn't follow that trend. You moved HERE for some reason, right? Why aren't you posting on the Charlotte or Austin forums about the real estate situations there?
2. Looking at migration trends in the US, you will see that there has been a very SIGNIFICANT shift out of the NE, including NJ and NY, into Southern metros such as Houston, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc. People are starting to realize that the "amenities" in places like the NY metro are not enough to justify the ridiculous COL. You say people dream of living in NY more than other places, but based on the large number of people LEAVING the NJ-NY metro area for homes 10x the size at 1/3 the cost in the South, the statistics don't back that up. At the current rate of growth, places like Houston and Atlanta will actually surpass NYC in population within the next few decades, and businesses will follow.
You have it backwards. People follow jobs and businesses. Businesses don't follow people. I know a lot of people that moved out of NJ because their job moved. I don't know anyone that quit their job and moved out of NJ in hopes of finding a job somewhere else. 15 years ago everyone was moving to Charlotte because that's where the banks were moving to. The banks got there first. That growth has since leveled off from what I've read.
Also, if growth occurs in places like Houston and Atlanta as much as you say it will, then the increase in demand for housing will increase the cost of living there. It will never be as high as NYC, but it is incorrect to believe the cost of living would remain flat with increasing population growth in these cities.
But YOU didn't follow that trend. You moved HERE for some reason, right? Why aren't you posting on the Charlotte or Austin forums about the real estate situations there?
The OP seems very unhappy. Why is he/she even here? We all have free will.
The OP seems very unhappy. Why is he/she even here? We all have free will.
I'm suspecting maybe a spouse made a move for a job and the OP had to reluctantly come along. He or she has been asked several times why s/he moved here, and s/he isn't saying.
I can't see someone saying, "Hey, gee whiz, I think I'll move to one of the priciest places in the country so I can complain about it to the people who already live there."
I'm suspecting maybe a spouse made a move for a job and the OP had to reluctantly come along. He or she has been asked several times why s/he moved here, and s/he isn't saying.
I can't see someone saying, "Hey, gee whiz, I think I'll move to one of the priciest places in the country so I can complain about it to the people who already live there."
I swear that's about 40% of the posts on this board. LOL
"New York City" — as has been pointed out already, previously named Nieuw Amsterdam when settled by Dutch immigrants, named after their homeland's capital city.
"Bergen County" — so named by its original European settlers, the Dutch; due to the fact that they considered the terrain 'mountainous' (which it certainly is when compared to The Netherlands). "Berg" is the Dutch word for "mountain."
New York City and Bergen County have been tied at the hip since European settlement, if not earlier.
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Bergen — de facto New Yorkers
