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I did not say that South Jersey is Southern. It's MidAtlantic.
The gradual freeing of slaves was called manumission.
Try looking up the Great Philadelphia Wagon Trail/Road. Colonists & immigrants coming to Philadelphia & Wilmington traveled the road to settle the backcountry in colonies that were further south, taking their accents with them. Various changes occurred over time, but most of the vowel sounds in the MidAtlantic accent are the same as the Southern accents.
If you still don't understand that I'm not saying that South Jersey is the South, just reread my posts carefully until you understand them.
I'm not saying you're saying that, it was just a statement answering to the general question in the thread which suggests South Jersey is Southern.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
I'm not saying you're saying that, it was just a statement answering to the general question in the thread which suggests South Jersey is Southern.
No it doesn't. It asks if there is a Southern accent in South Jersey. The answer to that is yes. It's in a very small area near Delaware Bay. Several of us have said yes to that question. That doesn't mean that it's the South.
No it doesn't. It asks if there is a Southern accent in South Jersey. The answer to that is yes. It's in a very small area near Delaware Bay. Several of us have said yes to that question. That doesn't mean that it's the South.
This thread came to be in the middle of one of the many "which states make up the northeast?" threads. In that thread, numerous people for a few pages were discussing the so-called South Jersey Southern drawl, and a small number were even claiming NJ was Southern, or at least South Jersey is Southern and having that type of debate. This thread was spurned from that conversation, in which it was suggested part of NJ had Southern qualities.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
This thread came to be in the middle of one of the many "which states make up the northeast?" threads. In that thread, numerous people for a few pages were discussing the so-called South Jersey Southern drawl, and a small number were even claiming NJ was Southern, or at least South Jersey is Southern and having that type of debate. This thread was spurned from that conversation, in which it was suggested part of NJ had Southern qualities.
I responded to a free-standing thread. You keep saying that people in the thread are saying that South Jersey is in the South. I don't see it. You continue to quote me, which means that you are responding to me. I have not said that. No one else in this thread has said that. If this was broken off from another thread, go back to that thread to state your case. Is that plain & clear enough for you?
If this was broken off from another thread it should have gone to the other NJ board where people will address the topic seriously, not as a chance to take potshots at South Jersey.
I responded to a free-standing thread. You keep saying that people in the thread are saying that South Jersey is in the South. I don't see it. You continue to quote me, which means that you are responding to me. I have not said that. No one else in this thread has said that. If this was broken off from another thread, go back to that thread to state your case. Is that plain & clear enough for you?
If this was broken off from another thread it should have gone to the other NJ board where people will address the topic seriously, not as a chance to take potshots at South Jersey.
I'm having a discussion like everyone else. If you don't like what I'm saying, stop responding or stop reading. You're being awfully defensive for no reason. I'm not attacking you or anything you're saying. I was involved in this thread before you even got here; since it started as a result of another thread. This thread started as a direct result of a conversation in another, older thread that at one point debated whether part of NJ is culturally Southern. This thread is about an accent, but it came directly out of a debate regarding NJ's potential "Southerness" - it's all in the OP. It's not directly asking if NJ is Southern, but that's what started this line of conversation in a separate thread. The question of a "Southern" or "Southern-influenced" accent insinuates that a place could potentially be Southern, and I'm saying in this case, despite the accent, no part of NJ is, has ever been, or ever will be "the South." My conversation so far has been totally on track, I'm sorry if you felt every word I've written since I quoted your post was a direct response to you. I tend to write direct and general responses within quoted posts. My only (intended) direct response to you on topic was regarding slavery in my first post to you here.
The Southern Poverty Law Center Hate Map says, indeed, there is a SkinHead presence in South Jersey.
As far as I'm concerned they should not be tolerated in any civilized country. They should be deported and stripped of their citizenship. Period.
I don't doubt that, I wasn't insinuating otherwise. It is true though that you don't have to be a skinhead to display a Confederate flag, and unfortunately people all over the country have them. I don't like it either but I can't control it, and it's their right anyway.
There used to be a video online of the Deep South Jersey accent. It is classified as being very similar to a Tidewater Virginia accent. Most of the people in South Jersey share an accent with Philadelphia. That accent extends to include Baltimore. It's called the MidAtlantic accent. There are minor differences between the Philadelphia & Baltimore versions. That accent shares a lot of similarities with accents going down into the NC piedmont, which is not twangy.
Unlike most of the east coast, Philadelphia & Baltimore retained the "r" sound. The biggest difference between the MidAtlantic accent & a full-blown southern accent in the NC piedmont is glide deletion in a long "I". However you do hear it occasionally in some words like fire engine (farn-gin)
It doesn't mean that South Jersey is the South. It's the MidAtlantic.
Yeah. Midland accents have partial glide deletion whereas fully Southern accents have complete glide deletion. Nice white rice is pronounced "nuis wuit ruis" in the Midland and "nahs waht rahs" in the Deep South.
Personally, I think many Jersey people tend to be rather accent-less like most of the Midland. Now let me explain that. I don't think Midland accents aren't actual accents, but like all Midland dialects, their presence of inconsistent features make them hard to pin to a specific region, thus giving the impression that a Midland speaker is accent-less. This of course does not apply to Northeast Jersey.
I think the most noticeable Midland dialect is Philadelphia's, and that's simply because in its strongest form takes on an almost rhotic Australian quality. Listen to a strong Philadelphian accent pronounce the phrase "call those people" and tell me it doesn't resemble Australian English a bit. Baltimore's accent on the other hand takes on more drawled out vowels from NC, the Appalachians (also Midland) and Tidewater that it can sound to an untrained ear quite Southern. No Deep South person would mistake that for their own tongue, but Upper South accents can be quite similar except for lax short a's used more often. But inconsistent glide deletion is shared by Midland and Upper South accents.
Jersey, though? I've met a few South Jersey people and their accents are not easy to trace. If Southern accented Jersey people exist I would love to meet them. Although the Mid-Atlantic pronunciation of Wildwood as "Wallwud" suggests a Southern-ish hint here and there. Also, like the rest of the Midland region from South Jersey west to Oklahoma, "on" rhymes with "dawn" and not with "don" just like in the South. One of the most consistent traits of Northern accents from New York to Minneapolis is that "on" rhymes with "don" and never with "dawn", UNLESS you're in extreme Eastern New England like Boston. This is a carryover British trait that persists in most accents of the US except a lot of the North, in which a more nasal vowel is employed.
Also, to the person who said they met someone from Indiana with a Southern accent, they do extend into the southern extremities of the state. Elsewhere the rest of them are like Pennsylvania and Ohio (except Cleveland) in which the accent is untraceable. Go to Indy and see if you can tell the difference between that and most of Pennsylvania. Midland accents are near impossible to pinpoint accurately unless you're a total dialect nerd. I think they also are the most common, anyway, leading to them being in the "General American" umbrella. Or if you're in the Mid-Atlantic: 'Murica.
Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 07-18-2015 at 10:05 PM..
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
Personally, I think many Jersey people tend to be rather accent-less like most of the Midland. Now let me explain that. I don't think Midland accents aren't actual accents, but like all Midland dialects, their presence of inconsistent features make them hard to pin to a specific region, thus giving the impression that a Midland speaker is accent-less. This of course does not apply to Northeast Jersey.
I think the most noticeable Midland dialect is Philadelphia's, and that's simply because in its strongest form takes on an almost rhotic Australian quality. Listen to a strong Philadelphian accent pronounce the phrase "call those people" and tell me it doesn't resemble Australian English a bit. Baltimore's accent on the other hand takes on more drawled out vowels from NC, the Appalachians (also Midland) and Tidewater that it can sound to an untrained ear quite Southern. No Deep South person would mistake that for their own tongue, but Upper South accents can be quite similar except for lax short a's used more often. But inconsistent glide deletion is shared by Midland and Upper South accents.
Jersey, though? I've met a few South Jersey people and their accents are not easy to trace. If Southern accented Jersey people exist I would love to meet them. Although the Mid-Atlantic pronunciation of Wildwood as "Wallwud" suggests a Southern-ish hint here and there.
Also, to the person who said they met someone from Indiana with a Southern accent, they do extend into the southern extremities of the state. Elsewhere the rest of them are like Pennsylvania and Ohio (except Cleveland) in which the accent is untraceable. Go to Indy and see if you can tell the difference between that and most of Pennsylvania. Midland accents are near impossible to pinpoint accurately unless you're a total dialect nerd. I think they also are the most common, anyway, leading to them being in the "General American" umbrella. Or if you're in the Mid-Atlantic: 'Murica.
Take a trip to Woodstown then drive to Cape May, staying as close to Delaware Bay as possible.
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