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Old 10-29-2014, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,979 posts, read 40,955,833 times
Reputation: 44901

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
what do you think about the story thats out there regarding obama wanting to treat non-americans here?
Some countries are declining to send workers to West Africa, including Australia (which is sending money) because of concerns about getting them home if they get sick. If the US can take care of some of these workers, it will make it more likely that people will be willing to go to Africa. There will not be many of them. Some countries will take care of their own.

I would venture to say we should accept citizens of the affected countries who are health care workers, too. They can then return home and continue to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
That statistic is wrong. If I wasn't running on a treadmill right now I would look it up, but there is no way 49,000 people die from the flu every year in America. Probably less than 5,000. But mortality rate is the important number. Something like 40,000,000 people get the flu in America each year, but only a tiny portion of those people die from it. Ebola kills between 60% and 90% of those who contract it. Given the better health system in America, let's be generous and say 40% here. If the flu had a 40% mortality rate, humans would no longer be here. The better argument might be that it is harder for Americans to get Ebola in the first place, but I say, let's keep it that way. No need for hysteria, but some vigilance is called for.
How flu deaths are estimated:

Estimating Seasonal Influenza-Associated Deaths in the United States: CDC Study Confirms Variability of Flu | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
Yes. The transfusion therapy seems to be successful, and we have reason to be hopeful, but it is way to early to claim 12.5%. It's just too small of a sample size. Btw, there is a possible vaccine being tested, though there haven't been that many volunteers for the study yet.
Doctors and medical students are willing; non-medical people not so much:

Ebola Shots on Lake Geneva for $845 Test Vaccine Support - Bloomberg

First British volunteer injected with trial Ebola vaccine in Oxford | World news | The Guardian

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
How would banning travel out of West Africa (besides humanitarian efforts, people who should be quarantined prior to or at arrival back home), which is what the presidents of these 3 nations should have done - closed their country off to casual travel, NOT help contain the disease? Seriously, how would stopping travel BRING the disease to other countries? How would not accepting any West African passports at American airports, at or prior to getting on the plane to come here, be detrimental?

Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea should have closed themselves off back in the summer when they saw cases rising at a scary rate. They should only allow humanitarian efforts to bring people to their country, no one else, and no one but those same aid workers should be allowed to leave. Once they leave, or prior to leaving, they should be quarantined for 21 days. This is how you contain. You don't contain by doing absolutely nothing and hoping for the best. You don't contain by waiting for it to inevitably come here and dealing with it on a case by case level. Come on. If it's such a bad idea, why did Australia and (unfortunately I have to say this but they're right) North Korea do it? South Africa?

Look at Venice and plague during the Renaissance to know how to properly attempt to quarantine and contain. In 1400 they had the idea to stop foreigners and quarantine them, then quarantine all inside an infected house for up to 40 days, whether 1 or 10 family members were sick. That is containment, that is quarantine. What is going on now is not quarantine, nor is it containment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
you've stated multiple things here.

1. Banning travel at US airports doesn't close off the targeted countries to travel. it only closes them off to travel to the US, in the sense that we are able to prevent every single person who comes here from there, which is unlikely something we can assure. Some people have multiple passports. Some have fake passports. It's not difficult to obtain a fake passport in all cases. But that's all besides the point, because banning travel TO the US doesn't ban all travel FROM the outbreak countries. Those people will go somewhere. it may start with going to countries they share borders with. and then branch out from there. Again, people more experienced with these things than you or I have conducted models on these things, and all it does is delay the spread of the disease.
2. do you know much about Liberia, SL, and Guinea? How would they "close themselves off"?

How you contain is sending resources and people to the countries and containing the outbreak. that's it. everything else is just fluff that's reactionary and not very useful.
Brady is right.

The governments of the affected countries are a joke. They are totally unable to handle this outbreak or they would have already done so. Borders for these countries are just imaginary lines on a map. Practically speaking, they are non-existent. People work in one country part of the year and another country another part. They do not use passports or visas.

What we have to do is not give poor people, who could never afford to travel outside of Africa, less reason to flee to neighboring countries. Cut down on air travel, and people lose jobs, they cannot feed their families, they move looking for work, and the next thing you know the outbreak spreads to another country. Côte d'Ivoire shares a long border with Liberia, for example.

Imagine that you fill a zip-lock bag with water, then squeeze it hard. Where is it most likely to leak? If you close the zipper properly, the seam in the plastic will probably separate before the zipper part leaks. Ask me how I know this!

The airport is the zipper. It can be closed. The borders are the seams, and they are weak points. We need to make it less likely that people will walk across the borders of Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone. The movement of populations in these countries is just as fluid as the water in that zip-lock bag.

We have to use a full-court press on the African outbreak to reduce the odds it will come here. That means more medical workers, food aid, and getting a distribution system for vaccines ready and waiting. If Ebola does come to the US, we need to funnel it through a few entry points to increase the odds of picking it up. Then our medical people have to be vigilant to pick up someone who leaks through the screening process.

For those of us who are not on those medical teams the risk of getting Ebola is close to zero.
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Old 10-29-2014, 09:20 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,420 posts, read 15,132,901 times
Reputation: 14262
Yes, I read that. So basically, the CDC is saying they don't know. Could be as low as 3000 per year or as high as 49,000 if you include all the other factors. But it doesn't really matter because either way, the mortality rate for the disease is relatively, very low. Roughly 0.1% on the high end to 0.01% on the low end. The point of my response was that it is much much lower than the mortality rate for Ebola, even in the best scenario.
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Old 10-29-2014, 09:40 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,495,842 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Some countries are declining to send workers to West Africa, including Australia (which is sending money) because of concerns about getting them home if they get sick. If the US can take care of some of these workers, it will make it more likely that people will be willing to go to Africa. There will not be many of them. Some countries will take care of their own.

I would venture to say we should accept citizens of the affected countries who are health care workers, too. They can then return home and continue to work.
great, America should take care of ebola patients in our own country. lets just bring the disease here on a red carpet and spend millions of American taxpayer dollars for non-americans. I don't particularly care if anyone goes to Africa to help. that may be shortsighted but I doubt it. its funny how people are so concerned about the future if we deny entry to some Africans and then they tell everyone else how hysterical people are for being worried. there are a lot of inconsistencies among those that have irrational opinions. brady on one hand responds to my statement "where do you think ebola infected people will want to go" with a "they wont be traveling because they will be puking and pooping blood" then when I say "we should deny them entry" he says "they will find other ways to enter, so may as well let them in and track them" ok, so are they incapable of entering because they are puking blood or are they going to sneak in some ninja way?

suzy, did you vote for Obama in 2012?

Last edited by CaptainNJ; 10-29-2014 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,979 posts, read 40,955,833 times
Reputation: 44901
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
great, America should take care of ebola patients in our own country. lets just bring the disease here on a red carpet and spend millions of American taxpayer dollars for non-americans. I don't particularly care if anyone goes to Africa to help. that may be shortsighted but I doubt it. its funny how people are so concerned about the future if we deny entry to some Africans and then they tell everyone else how hysterical people are for being worried. there are a lot of inconsistencies among those that have irrational opinions. brady on one hand responds to my statement "where do you think ebola infected people will want to go" with a "they wont be traveling because they will be puking and pooping blood" then when I say "we should deny them entry" he says "they will find other ways to enter, so may as well let them in and track them" ok, so are they incapable of entering because they are puking blood or are they going to sneak in some ninja way?

suzy, did you vote for Obama in 2012?
You should care about Africa very much. That is where it is coming to America from. There will not be many cases here in the near future because most of the people who are getting it are either poor or they are health care workers. The fewer health care workers there are, the more poor people will get sick, and the disease will expand into other countries. Eventually more affluent people will be exposed, and they will be able to afford to fly here.

If we offer to treat the health care workers, then more people will be willing to take care of Ebola patients. For example, Australia might send workers if they could be treated here.

Monitoring returning health care workers will catch the vast majority of cases that might come here. The way to stop more cases like Duncan is to stop the African out break so more people like Duncan do not even exist.

We can pay now or pay more later.

Mr. Obama? No, neither time.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:26 AM
 
12,883 posts, read 13,896,101 times
Reputation: 18448
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You should care about Africa very much. That is where it is coming to America from. There will not be many cases here in the near future because most of the people who are getting it are either poor or they are health care workers. The fewer health care workers there are, the more poor people will get sick, and the disease will expand into other countries. Eventually more affluent people will be exposed, and they will be able to afford to fly here.

If we offer to treat the health care workers, then more people will be willing to take care of Ebola patients. For example, Australia might send workers if they could be treated here.

Monitoring returning health care workers will catch the vast majority of cases that might come here. The way to stop more cases like Duncan is to stop the African out break so more people like Duncan do not even exist.

We can pay now or pay more later.

Mr. Obama? No, neither time.
It's not our job to treat other countries' sick on our soil. Not at the expense of our doctors and nurses who are here. What if they don't want to treat ebola patients? If they did, they'd probably go to Africa. You're being absurd.

Since you're so willing to be helpful, why don't you go to Africa's hot zones and offer some type of help?
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:29 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,339,782 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I'm simply talking about how to contain - something is quite literally not contained if it has spread and no efforts to stop the spread out of the hotspots have come up. It doesn't take an expert to tell you that.
like i said...i'll stick with the experts.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:58 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,339,782 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
great, America should take care of ebola patients in our own country. lets just bring the disease here on a red carpet and spend millions of American taxpayer dollars for non-americans. I don't particularly care if anyone goes to Africa to help. that may be shortsighted but I doubt it. its funny how people are so concerned about the future if we deny entry to some Africans and then they tell everyone else how hysterical people are for being worried. there are a lot of inconsistencies among those that have irrational opinions. brady on one hand responds to my statement "where do you think ebola infected people will want to go" with a "they wont be traveling because they will be puking and pooping blood" then when I say "we should deny them entry" he says "they will find other ways to enter, so may as well let them in and track them" ok, so are they incapable of entering because they are puking blood or are they going to sneak in some ninja way?

suzy, did you vote for Obama in 2012?
who is saying that America should take care of ebola patients in our own country?
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:47 AM
 
19,046 posts, read 25,145,382 times
Reputation: 25357
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ07035 View Post

And here is a Nobel Prize winner who disagrees:

Christie's Ebola quarantine policy questioned by Nobel laureate as debate intensifies | NJ.com


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Old 10-30-2014, 10:11 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,495,842 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
We can pay now or pay more later.
ill choose to pay later. let someone else step in or let the affected countries deal with it. we probably wont have to pay later but if we do then we will handle it. no need for more pre-emptive war but on ebola this time.
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Old 10-30-2014, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,979 posts, read 40,955,833 times
Reputation: 44901
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
It's not our job to treat other countries' sick on our soil. Not at the expense of our doctors and nurses who are here. What if they don't want to treat ebola patients? If they did, they'd probably go to Africa. You're being absurd.

Since you're so willing to be helpful, why don't you go to Africa's hot zones and offer some type of help?
All of the people involved in the care of Duncan were volunteers. They are the same people who would go to Africa.

Why would I not go myself? I am too old and do not have the skills. I am donating money.
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