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After poring over this thread, I just don't see how people can't afford to sustain a family while making in the salary range of $100,000-$200,000 annually! I tend to believe this is moreso a case of "keeping up with the Jones's" than it is about making ends meat. Now, I don't want to generalize here, but from what I've seen while traveling through the area on my frequent trips from Scranton to Manhattan, North Jersey probably has among the highest concentration of luxury vehicles in the nation. Lexuses and BMWs with those drab yellow-orange, front-mounted license plates dwarf my little Ford Contour, while the occupants are yammering into cell phones while staring down at their European watches. The general consensus seems to be as follows:
My parents don't eat out frequently, dabble in expensive new age fads, or have any "hired help."
I think many of the problems that some of you in North Jersey have is that you're downright insecure; who really cares if Joe Schmoe next-door just bought an Audi A8 and upstaged your Audi A6? Does God care? Do your children care? Nope. Who really cares if you're "not keeping up with the Jones's?" Nobody but yourselves! In the future, my professional endeavors will likely be netting me a salary of around $100,000. Nevertheless, my personal apex of what I want out of life are a Toyota Prius and a Victorian fixer-upper in one of Scranton's up-and-coming neighborhoods that I could purchase for $140,000 and restore to its former grandeur. Could I stretch myself to purchase a Porsche Boxster and live in one of Scranton's newer gated communities? Of course. Then again, why would I?
Admit it folks---If you can't afford to survive on $200,000 annually, then your pursestrings are just too loose! Reign in the spending, increase your investment portfolios, and you may just be surprised at how much more satisfying it is to be financially-secure while all of your neighbors are deep in the "green-eyed monster debt!"
I really don't appreciate being called "insecure" or any insinuation that I'm materialistic. I could also do without the eye rolls. If you read my post, I stated that I am frugal. My 99 used Ford Escort is certainly not a luxury foreign vehicle nor is my husbands 98 Jetta. We certainly are not in the "green eyed monster debt" as you assume.
As far as having "hired help" (a nanny), I am not going to apologize for that. I will settle for nothing but the best when it comes to my child's care, while I work to keep up with the ever increasing cost of living in NJ.
Sure, we can move to Ocean County or some other county that is far from NYC. Even if I was able to stay at home then, my husband would have a horrible commute and that is something neither of us want.
I am fed up with the corruption in this state's government and their proclivity to constantly raise taxes here.
While $1,000 heating bills are definitely not the norm here, I find it too expensive overall.
I make in the $40s, and live in Ocean County, and while I could very easily rent something and get by just fine, I don't want to throw my money away on rent. I want to own something, and for the size of the down payment I would be able to make, there are no single-family houses that I can afford. It's basically townhouse or condo for me, and I'm not thrilled with a lot of what's available in my price range.
Plus, having been raised in Ocean County, I feel that this is a great area for families. I loved being a kid here, and I still do think it's a great place to raise kids. It's safe, and there's lots of things for kids and families to do. I think as a single person I want to be somewhere that is not only cheaper but closer to (or even in) a city environment. Plus, I think the weather around here stinks for the most part, and I'd like to live somewhere a little warmer if I can find a place I like.
I must say after reading the post from NJMOM and many others I worry about my husband even considering a potential offer for Cherry Hill, NJ. We both make a very good living and have a wonderful new home in a nice neighborhood. I was excited about us receiving a potential offer for NJ but wonder if we would be going backwards with this move.
I think some people here aren't really talking about the same thing.
Sure, some people in NJ do get into the "keeping up with the Jones' game" and some people are not living efficiently ($1000 for a heating bill?), but these people are *exceptions* to the norm.
For people who have families that are moving into the area (or have just started looking into buying a house), NJ is a very expensive state to buy a house if you need to commute into the city and you don't want a 2-hour commute, and it's not like it's that much cheaper with a 2-hour commute.
Houses are more expensive than the underlying fundamentals would imply, property taxes are out of control, and car/health insurance is ridiculously high. I suspect that those of you who are saying "just move to a different city or stop living the high life" are people that bought houses years ago before the bubble amd haven't had a tax re-assessment in a while.
While I gripe about the high cost of living here, I consider myself lucky that my husband and I could buy a nice 3 BR in a nice neighborhood with a decent commute to NY. We could do that because we both make pretty good salaries. I know many young hardworking people who are cops, nurses, teachers (with careers in North Jersey so suggestions to buy in cheap southern parts of NJ won't be particularly helpful....), and they are having a lot of difficulty affording a home in NJ....
I must say after reading the post from NJMOM and many others I worry about my husband even considering a potential offer for Cherry Hill, NJ. We both make a very good living and have a wonderful new home in a nice neighborhood. I was excited about us receiving a potential offer for NJ but wonder if we would be going backwards with this move.
Go to realtor.com, and check out the home prices in Cherry Hill. Cherry Hill is in Southern NJ, and as others have pointed out, Southern NJ is a totally different landscape then the northern part of the state. You'll be further away from NYC...in MOST cases, this means you can get a nice home sometimes for $100-150K LESS then you would be paying in a Northern area of the state! And we aren't talking rundown neighborhoods - it truly is a situation where you pay more for being closer to the city. For some people, it's a necessity to live closer to the city (because of jobs, etc.). :-) But if you only want to go there for occasional entertainment, being in Cherry Hill isn't a handicap.
If you get yourself a solid realtor willing to give you the facts you need, it can definitely help your process...and of course, the internet can be a solid tool in figuring out what areas in and around Cherry Hill may be attractive to you.
Well, I have to be honest about Cherry Hill. It is a beautiful town, do not get me wrong. But Cherry Hill is becoming a business district atmosphere and the taxes in Cherry Hill alone are fairly high for the area. Cherry Hill is home to a lot of corporate executives and business men/women commuting from Philadelphia. Although, Cherry Hill is a beautiful place to live. Your taxes are put to work in that town.
If I would recommend moving to South Jersey, It would be Gloucester County. Gloucester is steadily building, close commute to anywhere, a lot of rural area's and a lot of shopping also.
Woolwich- #1 Recommended Living. New Construction ALL OVER the place. Rural Setting. They haven't started building shopping centers yet, So the homes in the area will skyrocket for close shopping. Fabulous Kingsway School Systems.
East Greenwich/Mickelton - Same deal, Lots of New Construction. Big Homes and affordable. 2800sqft. Pulte Homes start in the 380's with a ton of incentives. Them Homes go up to 4500sqft. This is in the same general area as Woolwich. Fabulous Kingsway School Systems.
Sewell - Little bit on the pricier side, but an absolute gem of a town to live in. Everyone is friends with everyone. Since people just do not want to leave, you'll find less homes on the market here and more buyers for this market. Town has newer homes, but you cannot find land around here anymore for builders to build on. Tons of shopping and some of the best public school districts.
Those are my Top 3. There is so much more, but I absolutely love those towns.
I think some people here aren't really talking about the same thing.
Sure, some people in NJ do get into the "keeping up with the Jones' game" and some people are not living efficiently ($1000 for a heating bill?), but these people are *exceptions* to the norm.
I agree they are the exception to the norm. I don't think anyone is debating whether or not NJ is an expensive state - it is. Even the Southern areas of the state are not "cheap" - they are just cheapER. However, nobody can tell me with a straight face that they struggle on $150K a year. If you are struggling with that salary, I go back to my point that you are going to struggle on that salary no matter WHERE you go - because the problem isn't the cost of living. The problem is that there is a lot of money going somewhere it doesn't necessarily need to go. And when you move, you are probably just going to spend your extra "disposable" income on more of that stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
For people who have families that are moving into the area (or have just started looking into buying a house), NJ is a very expensive state to buy a house if you need to commute into the city and you don't want a 2-hour commute, and it's not like it's that much cheaper with a 2-hour commute.
Well, they are cheaper the further away you get from that commute. If you need to get into the city to work, then you may be stuck either buying less then what you originally wanted to buy, or deal with the commute until your situation improves. And that is another point - if you are moving to NJ, the first thing you need to make sure of is that your employer (if it's an employer outside of the state) is paying you relative to living in NJ - if you are being offered an Arkansas salary to work in NJ, then I wouldn't recommend moving here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
Houses are more expensive than the underlying fundamentals would imply, property taxes are out of control, and car/health insurance is ridiculously high. I suspect that those of you who are saying "just move to a different city or stop living the high life" are people that bought houses years ago before the bubble amd haven't had a tax re-assessment in a while.
Car insurance is indeed way too high in this state, as are property taxes. But again, I do find that to be somewhat relative - if someone is moving ANYWHERE, these are things they have to look into before moving there. Nobody should move to NJ, and then be shocked to find out what car insurance costs. Hopefully, they dotted those i's and crossed their t's before hopping on the plane
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As I said in a different post, we got lucky - not because the house is necessarily cheap, and not because we have dirt-cheap tax rates (though in terms of NJ, it is definitely cheaper then many areas!!!)....but one main reason was the mortgage rate. We aren't in a "house on top of another house" community, but we also do not have an extremely big property (at least not in the back), so of course, that brings down the price of the home as well. We kind of hit the "perfect storm". It was bought in 2005, so it definitely was during the real estate boom. The people who had this house built for them five or six years ago paid a LOT less..to the point where I wish I was looking for a home five years ago instead of one year ago.....
Looking at the numbers, I find it hard to comprehend why you cannot live on $150K a year:
Nanny, $2K/month: $24,000
'Heat', $1K/six months: $6,000
Mortgate, assuming $5K/month: $60,000
Those major expenses total $90,000, which leaves you $60,000 per year for 'other stuff'. That is more than I make in a year and I also pay a mortgage, am a single mom, etc.
If you have other issues like high credit card debt, well, you can't blame that on the state of New Jersey!
However, nobody can tell me with a straight face that they struggle on $150K a year. If you are struggling with that salary, I go back to my point that you are going to struggle on that salary no matter WHERE you go - because the problem isn't the cost of living.
I can agree with that, that people making that much should not be "struggling", per se. As evidenced on this thread, there are many people in Northern NJ who make do, making less.
However, I really don't think you're giving enough credit to people who do make $150k and claim that they are frustrated with their financial situation, especially if they are a first time home buyer.
And again, I think a lot of criticisms are coming from people who don't realize just how high house prices and property taxes have gotten over the past few years.
For example (and granted, this is an extreme example): (broken link)
A run-down shack in Palisades Park for the low, low price of $579k. Even assuming if you have the 20% down payment, you're still in the hole for $3k a month on the mortgage NOT including taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc. With all that included, you're talking $4k, if not more.
With current house prices the way they are, first time home buyers who make decent money will still have problems saving money. And I think that's where the frustration is coming through; becuase they, like you, are wondering why it's so hard to save money on a good salary.
Last edited by Yac; 11-05-2006 at 12:39 PM..
Reason: property listing
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I tend to believe this is moreso a case of "keeping up with the Jones's" than it is about making ends meat. 
Now, I don't want to generalize here, but from what I've seen while traveling through the area on my frequent trips from Scranton to Manhattan, North Jersey probably has among the highest concentration of luxury vehicles in the nation. 
Could I stretch myself to purchase a Porsche Boxster and live in one of Scranton's newer gated communities? Of course. Then again, why would I? 
Reign in the spending, increase your investment portfolios, and you may just be surprised at how much more satisfying it is to be financially-secure while all of your neighbors are deep in the "green-eyed monster debt!" 
