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I would take you up on your offer to walk from Pacific Ave to Communipaw Ave to Monticello Ave, but first I would ask for the 101st Airborne for some backup.
I WOULD NOT take you up on your offer to drive around and POINT out where the problems are. Can you imagine being on Ocean Ave at a red light and pointing at a group that is on a street corner?!?!?!
How about a serious consideration instead of jokes? I'd seriously like to see just what you're thinking makes something a bad area.
I tell you what I'll do, though, since I think it's unlikely that you'd actually back up your words with actions/evidence, meet up and go through the area; I'll take a walk from Pacific to Communipaw and down to Monticello, take photographs for you, and you can point out what you think is a problem from the photographs. I have a nice new Sony camera that I'll be using, by the way. ;-)
Last edited by DessertRat; 01-29-2008 at 08:41 AM..
I don't know why I have such a soft spot for JC. I never lived there, but have family there (have for generations), my parents worked there (my dad at the jail), was there with my mother when she got mugged (LOL) and just in general spent lots of time eating, hanging or driving through the city.
I was so happy to see the downtown/Newport area come to life.
Don't know if I'd ever live there, but it makes me sad to see it trashed (deservingly or not) so often.
I think fischfan is talking about the groups of 10-15 people unemployed people hanging around on just about every corner on Martin Luther King Drive, Ocean Avenue, Bergen Avenue, Monticello Avenue the junction and other areas to numerous to be listed. These people are not working, selling drugs, drinking booze, urinating in the streets, sex in the alleyways and so on. Ive been tackling this issue for 31 years and its horrible. Why are able bodied grown up men hanging on street corners for DECADES not minutes. The summertime is even worse. No you don't have to drive me around to see it because i have been driving around for 31 years and getting paid and I see it everyday so save the batteries in your camera dessert rat. And to add to it I love Jersey City so you can't say I'm a basher.
How about a serious consideration instead of jokes? I'd seriously like to see just what you're thinking makes something a bad area.
I tell you what I'll do, though, since I think it's unlikely that you'd actually back up your words with actions/evidence, meet up and go through the area; I'll take a walk from Pacific to Communipaw and down to Monticello, take photographs for you, and you can point out what you think is a problem from the photographs. I have a nice new Sony camera that I'll be using, by the way. ;-)
Yeah sure, now you want me to take pictures of people hanging out on corners dealing drugs.
Listen...
In 2006 JC had 22 murders, 60 forcible rapes, 1553 robberies, 1225 aggravated assaults, 1670 burglaries, 442 Thefts (Larceny), 1495 Motor vehicle thefts and 96 cases of arson.
For a City of 240,000, that is bad.
In 2006 in JC there were 5943 cases of robbery, aggravated assault, buglaries and MV thefts combined. That means that in a course of a day in JC there are 17 cases of these crimes happening EACH and everyday. SEVENTEEN!
Ocean County has over 560,000 people and has less crime than in JC.
YOu have 320,000 less people in your City than I do in my County, yet you have more crime.
I know what you're going to say, "there is a house on a street in a section of JC that has not had crime in front of it for 4 years". Bring up sections. Bring up a street. Bring up whatever you want.
And the answer to your question...
NO.
I will not spend a day with you in JC walking, pointing out, or filming anything...with my luck my in-laws will spot me.
I think fischfan is talking about the groups of 10-15 people unemployed people hanging around on just about every corner on Martin Luther King Drive, Ocean Avenue, Bergen Avenue, Monticello Avenue the junction and other areas to numerous to be listed. These people are not working, selling drugs, drinking booze, urinating in the streets, sex in the alleyways and so on. Ive been tackling this issue for 31 years and its horrible. Why are able bodied grown up men hanging on street corners for DECADES not minutes. The summertime is even worse. No you don't have to drive me around to see it because i have been driving around for 31 years and getting paid and I see it everyday so save the batteries in your camera dessert rat. And to add to it I love Jersey City so you can't say I'm a basher.
IMO, the shame of everything is that the police have their hands tied. Everything is "discrimination", "my rights", "the ACLU (puke)". A police officer knows what is better for a City and its streets than some lawyer or some judge.
I'll never forget being a teenager and living in Bayonne. I was hanging out one night (near Parente's, Tahiti). An officer on "foot" told us to leave. Instead of just walking away I questioned the officer. He followed me home on foot (5 blocks). When I opened the door I told my father what happened. My father screamed at me for what I did (questioning a police officer).
Fast forward to 2008...
A police officer tells a group of kids to break it up on a street corner in JC...
None of my story would apply...now would it?
I think fischfan is talking about the groups of 10-15 people unemployed people hanging around on just about every corner on Martin Luther King Drive, Ocean Avenue, Bergen Avenue, Monticello Avenue the junction and other areas to numerous to be listed. These people are not working, selling drugs, drinking booze, urinating in the streets, sex in the alleyways and so on.
I just posted something about this in another thread.
First of all, you do not actually know the status of people you see in the street unless you ask them--you do not know if they're working or not, how much they might be working, etc.
Secondly, there's absolutely nothing wrong or dangerous about people hanging out qua hanging out. There seem to be some weird judgments going on in the city-data forums about people gathering together in public.
Third, there aren't 10-15 people on every corner on MLK, etc. There would be absolutely nothing wrong with there being 10-15 people on every corner, but there just isn't.
Next, there's nothing wrong with not working in itself. I'm not a fan of the welfare system (I'm a Libertarian), but the problem there is the welfare system, not idleness. You shouldn't have to work if you do not want to. If someone wants to work, let them. If they don't want to, that's fine, and it's up to them how they're going to live.
Next, there's nothing wrong with drinking booze. Alcohol is legal, it should be legal, and it's absolutely ridiculous that public drinking isn't legal everywhere. As a Libertarian, I also think that drugs should be legal, as should prostitution and having sex in the streets. Not that people actually are having sex in the streets as you say. I walk around here a lot--I'm a hiker, and on days when I can't drive out to the hills/mountains, I "hike" around the city. If people were having sex in alleyways, I'd eagerly participate. I love sex.
I'm starting to wonder if it's not that the city-data forums are opaquely a gathering place for Mormons, Puritans, or something like that.
Quote:
Ive been tackling this issue for 31 years and its horrible. Why are able bodied grown up men hanging on street corners for DECADES not minutes.
Why is it horrible? Could you explain that to me? Because they don't share your Protestant work ethic, so they're evil and "gwine" to hell?
Yeah sure, now you want me to take pictures of people hanging out on corners dealing drugs.
Nope, I said nothing like that. I said that I'm going to walk that route and take pictures, and you can tell me what the problems are that you see.
Quote:
Listen...
In 2006 JC had 22 murders, 60 forcible rapes, 1553 robberies, 1225 aggravated assaults, 1670 burglaries, 442 Thefts (Larceny), 1495 Motor vehicle thefts and 96 cases of arson.
For a City of 240,000, that is bad.
This is why "see" is in italics above. You're reading statistics from somewhere. I don't know where. But I'm talking about what people actually experience living here. Not what they read about without analyzing it. You do not live statistics. I want to know what we're actually going to experience that's going to be bad neighborhoodish to you. When you live here, you live your personal experience. Not some statistics you read and have nothing to do with your life.
If we're going to talk about statistics, we have to talk about how to analyze them. It's not as if they're like the lottery, and crimes are happening to people randomly, for random "reasons".
Quote:
And the answer to your question...
NO.
I will not spend a day with you in JC walking, pointing out, or filming anything...with my luck my in-laws will spot me.
Right, I know that. You won't back up your nonsensical claims with real action/evidence. You'll just refer to some statistics that have absolutely nothing to do with your actual experience. That's not a way to assess an area.
I just posted something about this in another thread.
First of all, you do not actually know the status of people you see in the street unless you ask them--you do not know if they're working or not, how much they might be working, etc.
Secondly, there's absolutely nothing wrong or dangerous about people hanging out qua hanging out. There seem to be some weird judgments going on in the city-data forums about people gathering together in public.
Third, there aren't 10-15 people on every corner on MLK, etc. There would be absolutely nothing wrong with there being 10-15 people on every corner, but there just isn't.
Next, there's nothing wrong with not working in itself. I'm not a fan of the welfare system (I'm a Libertarian), but the problem there is the welfare system, not idleness. You shouldn't have to work if you do not want to. If someone wants to work, let them. If they don't want to, that's fine, and it's up to them how they're going to live.
Next, there's nothing wrong with drinking booze. Alcohol is legal, it should be legal, and it's absolutely ridiculous that public drinking isn't legal everywhere. As a Libertarian, I also think that drugs should be legal, as should prostitution and having sex in the streets. Not that people actually are having sex in the streets as you say. I walk around here a lot--I'm a hiker, and on days when I can't drive out to the hills/mountains, I "hike" around the city. If people were having sex in alleyways, I'd eagerly participate. I love sex.
I'm starting to wonder if it's not that the city-data forums are opaquely a gathering place for Mormons, Puritans, or something like that. Why is it horrible? Could you explain that to me? Because they don't share your Protestant work ethic, so they're evil and "gwine" to hell?
Well I think your view is duly noted/ Drugs,booze,sex in the streets should all be legal. It sounds like the movie reefer madness. Well I for one wouldn't want my children walking down the block seeing someong with a needle in his arm, drinking a pint of rum and getting a BJ at the same time in broad daylight. So if you think thats fine good for you. No wonder this country is going down the tubes. By the way i'm not protestant, i'm catholic. Walk on the same blocks that I mentioned in the summertime on a Friday and those numbers go up to like 20-30 people on just about every corner. But thats OK because you think their working.
This is why "see" is in italics above. You're reading statistics from somewhere. I don't know where. But I'm talking about what people actually experience living here. Not what they read about without analyzing it. You do not live statistics. I want to know what we're actually going to experience that's going to be bad neighborhoodish to you. When you live here, you live your personal experience. Not some statistics you read and have nothing to do with your l
So REAL NUMBERS do not matter to you.
The only way that you would believe that these NUMBERS are REAL is if you were a statistic yourself, correct?
These are numbers of what people are actually experiencing...again, I am laughing my a$$ off right now.
Lastly, why do people have to put labels on themselves.
Why do people believe that they have to back up their stance with a label?
Libertarian?
Who cares.
You are a human, just like the rest of us.
Maybe if you went out to these people hanging out on street corners and handed out dollar bills you might be labeled a humanitarian.
Quote:
As a Libertarian, I also think that drugs should be legal, as should prostitution and having sex in the streets. Not that people actually are having sex in the streets as you say. I walk around here a lot--I'm a hiker, and on days when I can't drive out to the hills/mountains, I "hike" around the city. If people were having sex in alleyways, I'd eagerly participate. I love sex.
Libertarians like to have sex in an alleyway?
I guess when little Tommy is walking home from school this is a good thing for him to see, in your opinion.
Quote:
There seem to be some weird judgments going on in the city-data forums about people gathering together in public.
For a Union meeting, it is ok.
For a bus stop, ok too.
To deal drugs and talk about stealing a Benz?
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