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According to this website/study New Jersey ranks amongst the lowest states for personal and economic freedom. Other states that were in the Top 5 for being the most strict included Maryland & New York.
The goal of this thread is to hear from all of us WHY is New Jersey so strict? I've always assumed it to be because of the population density and a long history of Eastern law & order. It wouldn't make sense to have the same gun laws as Mississippi, when the majority of the state is suburban. Things like this are obvious. But the study takes into account economic freedom as well, which is less obvious. What's with the hellish taxes and regulations here? Overall why would you say NJ ended up ranking on that list.
Note that except NY, the bottom states didn't do so bad in personal freedom (gun control and smoking being the big hits I imagine). NJs bad economic freedom is mostly
1) Corruption. High corruption means high taxes to support that corruption, and a lot of government workers to benefit from it.
2) Bleeding hearts: When people feel there's an obligation to help those poorer than they, they're more willing to put up with taxes which claim to do so. Unfortunately these taxes don't help, partially because corruption.
3) The Willie Sutton effect: There's a lot of money in NJ, hence a lot of taxes to take it away.
While there is no such thing as a perfectly neutral point of view, whoever wrote that article was not even close to it. The latter paragraphs hinted that it was from a somewhat "right wing" perspective.
Truth be known, I'm certainly not in any rush to move to NJ. In the 70s and 80s, it seemed to me that when some town was passing a restrictive local law on behavior, it would unusually likely be a town in NJ.
A lot of people who dislike the Republicans' economic policies are voting for them anyway, because of the Democrats' "social engineering".
Of course, the greater losses in personal freedoms in the last 40+ years have been "off the radar" - local (city and township) regulations that stop people from going into businesses of their own (unless connected to said governments) and zone out whole classes of business and people alike, and covenants or restrictions, by which individuals have to sign away all their personal freedoms when they accept a job and again when the take a place (owned or rented) to live, and the same right-wing states favored in that article are many of the states where such restrictions are most extreme.
Last edited by 313 TUxedo; 04-10-2016 at 11:47 AM..
According to this website/study New Jersey ranks amongst the lowest states for personal and economic freedom. Other states that were in the Top 5 for being the most strict included Maryland & New York.
The goal of this thread is to hear from all of us WHY is New Jersey so strict? I've always assumed it to be because of the population density and a long history of Eastern law & order. It wouldn't make sense to have the same gun laws as Mississippi, when the majority of the state is suburban. Things like this are obvious. But the study takes into account economic freedom as well, which is less obvious. What's with the hellish taxes and regulations here? Overall why would you say NJ ended up ranking on that list.
Man this forum is interesting....anyways I can see it, in fact I would say living in both MD and NJ MD is far more free despite being right up there in NJ
I cant drink (was raised Muslim and honestly just kept that way for health not moral reasons). This involves some more outdoorsy hobbies and social activities that don't involve drinking, I was able to do fairly easily in MD but am unable to do so in NJ.
A few things that are impossible to do in NJ that I've encountered
1) off roading or hitting pretty much any worthwhile trail (ie in a state park) on an atv or motorcycle/dualsport. I don't think a single park in the state even allows it, I have even heard of people getting arrested for going off path next to a rail construction site, complete bull****t. I had a bike trail/running trail right behind my apartment, this was 15 minute outside of DC in Silver Spring, MD
2) Guns, it is so scary and unworthwile to own a gun in NJ. I know law enforcement that have arrested people for stopping at a diner between the gunrange and home. Horrible, drive to PA, and it's a joke, no regulation anywhere. Obfuscated law, that legislatures, LLE, and judges themselves are confused about. Also why the **** do my neighbors have to do know I am applying for a permit? No sense of privacy, I don't like sharing my business with anyone. PERIOD.
3) Huge state liabilities for gun rnages/archery or anything related to 1960s asocial behavior. I once heard it costs $25k to insure an archery range and $100k+ for a gun range in NJ. Have to have an FID to fire alone. Unreal. The second amendment of our nation's Constitution doesn't even exist in NY NJ anymore. "the right to bear arms should not be infringed upon"
4) boating, swimming kayaking is illegal or not worth it (pollution in the Passaic, Hackensack, Hudson river). Sewage being dumped close to shore. If you grow up this close to the shore in Tampa Orlando Miami the Keys, and tell people you cannot swim they would give you a blank stare, whereas most NJ NY kids aren't swimming proficient. Old man across the street told me how he used to take a dip all the way up to the 60s in the Hudson? Even the cleaner parts there are signs that warn ticketing/arrest for swimming/kayaking/small boats. What the hell happened?
5) Development. Big devleopers and business, the politically established get more access to gu npermits/being included in Urban Ddevlopment Zones) than many of the small guys who continue to pay the overwhelming majority of property taxes etc in a neighborhood. Means less small business, less social mobility for entrepeneurs.
If you live outside the major cities in NJ, most of whom don't have a light rail/train system, what is there to really do if you don't drink/eat (you know ****t that costs money)? NJ's west has some beautiful scenic routes, trails, hills, yet unlike many other Midwestern, Southeastern, Western cities we do not have them integrated into our way of life. Even growing up in the 90s I remember so many of the rolling hills in Edison when we'd visit our cousins, and yet instead of preserving a portion for trails etc, they were all replaced by apartment buildings/grey dab slabs. It's just drab It's quite sad, and if you don't drink or cant find enough adults to play pick up soccer games, it can be quite boring to just sit down in a stadium etc and have entertainment come to you all the time, instead of going out to it.
Man this forum is interesting....anyways I can see it, in fact I would say living in both MD and NJ MD is far more free despite being right up there in NJ
I cant drink (was raised Muslim and honestly just kept that way for health not moral reasons). This involves some more outdoorsy hobbies and social activities that don't involve drinking, I was able to do fairly easily in MD but am unable to do so in NJ.
A few things that are impossible to do in NJ that I've encountered
1) off roading or hitting pretty much any worthwhile trail (ie in a state park) on an atv or motorcycle/dualsport. I don't think a single park in the state even allows it, I have even heard of people getting arrested for going off path next to a rail construction site, complete bull****t. I had a bike trail/running trail right behind my apartment, this was 15 minute outside of DC in Silver Spring, MD
2) Guns, it is so scary and unworthwile to own a gun in NJ. I know law enforcement that have arrested people for stopping at a diner between the gunrange and home. Horrible, drive to PA, and it's a joke, no regulation anywhere. Obfuscated law, that legislatures, LLE, and judges themselves are confused about. Also why the **** do my neighbors have to do know I am applying for a permit? No sense of privacy, I don't like sharing my business with anyone. PERIOD.
3) Huge state liabilities for gun rnages/archery or anything related to 1960s asocial behavior. I once heard it costs $25k to insure an archery range and $100k+ for a gun range in NJ. Have to have an FID to fire alone. Unreal. The second amendment of our nation's Constitution doesn't even exist in NY NJ anymore. "the right to bear arms should not be infringed upon"
4) boating, swimming kayaking is illegal or not worth it (pollution in the Passaic, Hackensack, Hudson river). Sewage being dumped close to shore. If you grow up this close to the shore in Tampa Orlando Miami the Keys, and tell people you cannot swim they would give you a blank stare, whereas most NJ NY kids aren't swimming proficient. Old man across the street told me how he used to take a dip all the way up to the 60s in the Hudson? Even the cleaner parts there are signs that warn ticketing/arrest for swimming/kayaking/small boats. What the hell happened?
5) Development. Big devleopers and business, the politically established get more access to gu npermits/being included in Urban Ddevlopment Zones) than many of the small guys who continue to pay the overwhelming majority of property taxes etc in a neighborhood. Means less small business, less social mobility for entrepeneurs.
If you live outside the major cities in NJ, most of whom don't have a light rail/train system, what is there to really do if you don't drink/eat (you know ****t that costs money)? NJ's west has some beautiful scenic routes, trails, hills, yet unlike many other Midwestern, Southeastern, Western cities we do not have them integrated into our way of life. Even growing up in the 90s I remember so many of the rolling hills in Edison when we'd visit our cousins, and yet instead of preserving a portion for trails etc, they were all replaced by apartment buildings/grey dab slabs. It's just drab It's quite sad, and if you don't drink or cant find enough adults to play pick up soccer games, it can be quite boring to just sit down in a stadium etc and have entertainment come to you all the time, instead of going out to it.
I only have one question.
I grew up in Edison in the 50's 60's. Where are these rolling hills you are talking about? They weren't there when I lived there.
Back then before the Indians overpopulated Edison we had plenty of places to ride our motorcycles off road and shoot our 22's in the woods.
Guaranteed you never heard of Hidden Lake and the miles of off road trails near the arsenal.( all long gone now)
BTW NJ has double the population per square mile than MD. Open space is at a premium thanks to the new residents overpopulating NJ.
Man this forum is interesting....anyways I can see it, in fact I would say living in both MD and NJ MD is far more free despite being right up there in NJ.... snip, snip
If you live outside the major cities in NJ, most of whom don't have a light rail/train system, what is there to really do... cut, cut
Are you flipping kidding me? You can't figure out how to legally own a gun or off road in New Jersey? Thousands of people do either or both. The laws are terrible and they aren't going to change any time soon, but you can learn how to work with them.
I prefer PA. I could get a CC. I don't want one, but I could.
Debating gun control is going to be a while. I find it interesting how different people define economic and personal freedoms. In this case it's gun control and taxes
You have some-one from another country visiting us. And they got in trouble with police 2 times, they thought US was a free country. But drinking beer on a bus and going to the woods for a picnick (not designated pickinik area to grill), so they got tickets for that, and now all upset that US is not a free country ?
The area I live in is populated. There is always police around and when a civilian discharges a gun, a bystander will get shot. So from a safety stand point, simply walk around and think about it. Do guns make these streets safer ?
Further south or west is a different story.
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Why?
