Many Realtors in North Jersey Seem Misinformed about West Orange.... (Newark: mortgage, homes)

[babo111]

Originally Posted by SonorityGenius

Not to derail an already off topic discussion..

Would love Marc's thoughts on Jersey City.. tale of *2* cities actually.. one half pays none (Greenville), while the other half pays some (downtown, most prestigious).. and the middle, heights pays the most!

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

Interesting. So Jersey City has professional fire and EMS and every service imaginable. So the taxes for our prototypical $650,000 residence should be off the wall, and I should be readying another scathing tirade on collectivist property tax redistribution.

But lo and behold my research shows that the taxes for that property are only going to be $8,450. Hmmmmm.

So of course that is still too high for someone like me, but not bad all things considered. Much better than $18,500 for a 1950's Cape in West Orange with the dormers where you hit your head on the ceiling in the bedroom. Come to think of it, I may be on to something and that may be the problem afflicting many of the residents who persist in accepting such confiscatory taxation. But anyway...

Of course, we're usually talking a condo in Newport or Downtown or a 2-4 family home in the Heights or Journal Square in that price range in Jersey City. If you can believe it, there have been only 6 single family homes that have sold between $600,000 and $700,000 in all of Jersey City over the past year, at least through the Hudson County MLS. Everything else is a multi or a condo.

I'd like to add onto Marc's thoughts as someone who has been on the hunt for two years in downtown JC...

JC is definitely tale of two city. Rough ballpark wise 2/2 in downtown starting range is 700-900k+. 1/1 starting range is 500-650k+ but big factor is that Mayor Fulop canceled reval which suppressed prop taxes and bloated up residential RE prices. Combined with low inventory built during great recession, prices jumped like crazy.

Reval went to court and by 2017, reval must be done for so RE market in JC in a really odd funk. I've never seen so much inventory come onto downtown JC area in past 2 years until few months ago when reval was won in court.

Sellers who doesn't want to or can't pay what the property tax really should have been are trying to unload. Buyers doesn't want to buy at the price knowing prop tax is going to jump within 20 months or less. So buyers want to pay less, sellers trying to get peak price. Some middle ground is happening with listings dropping prices little bit.

This is also influenced by fact that there is at least 10,000+ units being built in all of JC and almost all of them rental. You can tell too because there is f--k ton more of advertisements for rental buildings everywhere in past 12 months whereas 3 years ago there was hardly any.

All in all. Ton of rental units available and more coming on, rental price didn't jump, reval put buyers/sellers in odd funk. JC is in interesting situation.

I'm informed to expect somewhere between 15 to 20k prop tax for 900k unit eventually...so at that price. I'm now looking at Forest Hills, NY along with downtown JC.

[Docendo discimus]

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

Chattitude and Stepfordville. The envy oozing and dripping like motor oil from a broken engine.

Ok, so we've reached the 'You're just jealous!' point in this "discussion". This is mind numbing. What are you going to tell me next? That you're rubber and I'm glue? Put your big boy pants on, and join us at the adult's table.

You really don't have a clue what you are talking about. I currently live in that general Stepford vicinity, and grew up in one of the richie rich suburban towns of Essex/Morris. I'm one of the ones that chose to stay and settle here because I don't care what people think of the suburbs.

But I don't delude myself that I am living in a land of "prestige". What you call "prestige", other people roll their eyes at. Everyone from the self proclaimed sophisticated city folk who sneer at what they consider a sterile, Stepford, corny cookie cutter suburban wasteland, to the self proclaimed bad ass hillbilly hunter farmer country folk who think we're all a bunch of weak, clueless, pretentious morons paying too much money for a too tiny parcel of over developed land. We've had both types chime in on this forum many times.

And you know who's laughing at the whole lot of us? People in the South and the Midwest who go into shock at the thought of even $5,000/year taxes, who think we are all insane for choosing to pay such high taxes to live in the armpit of America with Snookie and The Sopranos as neighbors. Those folks stop by to sneer at us every so often as well.

So as much as you spout off at the mouth about the IDIOTS who choose to live in the confiscatory conditions of Essex County and West Orange, where the evil evil tyrannical government is stripping citizens of their freedom, there are plenty of people thinking YOU are also an IDIOT for living in NJ at all, especially north Jersey.

Why do you continue to live here with the rest of us morons? Are you an IDIOT who likes to be stripped of your freedom by a confiscatory tyrannical government? If you move to Kansas right now, you can buy a mansion-castle with a moat and on 4 acres and your taxes would only be $2,000 a year. I'm pretty sure you choose to stay in your corner of Morris County because (1) you CAN, and (2) you have your reasons.

Same goes for people who live in West Orange. They pay those taxes because they CAN.

[Docendo discimus]

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

The original post contained a link to the town website that attempted to enlist real estate agents as community promoters. That is decidedly not our job. Our job is to protect our buyers from making a poor decision by giving them ALL the information good and bad.

Did you type this with a straight face?

A real estate agent is a salesman, first and foremost. I understand that you have to pay lip service to the company line about being a champion for your buyers, but how stupid do you think people are?

As a salesman, your first priority is YOUR best interest, not the buyer's. Your job is to meet the sales expectations of your agency, and to sell, and to ABC. That absolutely includes selling whatever town it is in which you are trying to unload a property.

If you are steering people away from West Orange, it's not because you give a damn about their tax dollars. It's because home prices in West Orange are cheaper than in towns with lower taxes. If you can steer them towards those towns where similar houses have bigger price tags, you make a bigger commission.

Let's take someone's example from up thread, which you conveniently ignored and glossed over:

West Orange
$369,000
2700 sqft
4bed, 4 bath
$2543 - total payment
1322 - P/I
1138 - taxes

Chatham
$689,000
2505 sq ft
4bed, 3 bath
3466/mo - total payment
2460 - P/I
923 - taxes

Similar house, with similar monthly payments. One has a much higher price tag than the other, which means more commission for you. You claim that you would steer people away from West Orange because your bleeding heart aches for their financial well being and freedom from confiscatory (say 'confiscatory' again) tyranny. I say, you are being a clever & cunning salesman.

You don't care about what's best for the buyer, anymore than a car salesman does. If he's selling Fords, Fords are the best bang for your buck. You couldn't buy a better car. If he's selling Chevys, then Ford = "Found On Road Dead" and not worth the money, and that's what he'll tell the buyer to "protect" him from making a "poor" decision.

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

In West Orange, the rate of property taxation is BAD. And that is something all buyers need to know before considering residency. Some may decide to accept the confiscation and live there anyway. That's fine, as long as they know what they are getting themselves into.

Do you think property taxes are some kind of big secret that towns are conspiring to keep hidden? If a buyer is going to a realtor, sniffing around about properties in West Orange, he's already done a bunch of research and comparisons, knows about the taxes, and is still interested anyway.

Look at the numbers posted above. Someone not even in the buying process was able to look that up at the snap of a finger and the tap of a key.

[Melland]

for $923.00 more per month....you could have an 'asset' (The House) worth almost 2x more than the one in West Orange. If you're going to pay more for something, it should be the asset. While many can't afford the extra $923.00 per month...it points out just how out of skew WO taxes are.

West Orange
$369,000
2700 sqft
4bed, 4 bath
$2543 - total payment
1322 - P/I
1138 - taxes

Chatham
$689,000
2505 sq ft
4bed, 3 bath
3466/mo - total payment
2460 - P/I
923 - taxes

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by Docendo discimus

Did you type this with a straight face?

A real estate agent is a salesman, first and foremost. I understand that you have to pay lip service to the company line about being a champion for your buyers, but how stupid do you think people are?

As a salesman, your first priority is YOUR best interest, not the buyer's. Your job is to meet the sales expectations of your agency, and to sell, and to ABC. That absolutely includes selling whatever town it is in which you are trying to unload a property.

If you are steering people away from West Orange, it's not because you give a damn about their tax dollars. It's because home prices in West Orange are cheaper than in towns with lower taxes. If you can steer them towards those towns where similar houses have bigger price tags, you make a bigger commission.

Let's take someone's example from up thread, which you conveniently ignored and glossed over:

West Orange
$369,000
2700 sqft
4bed, 4 bath
$2543 - total payment
1322 - P/I
1138 - taxes

Chatham
$689,000
2505 sq ft
4bed, 3 bath
3466/mo - total payment
2460 - P/I
923 - taxes

Similar house, with similar monthly payments. One has a much higher price tag than the other, which means more commission for you. You claim that you would steer people away from West Orange because your bleeding heart aches for their financial well being and freedom from confiscatory (say 'confiscatory' again) tyranny. I say, you are being a clever & cunning salesman.

You don't care about what's best for the buyer, anymore than a car salesman does. If he's selling Fords, Fords are the best bang for your buck. You couldn't buy a better car. If he's selling Chevys, then Ford = "Found On Road Dead" and not worth the money, and that's what he'll tell the buyer to "protect" him from making a "poor" decision.



Do you think property taxes are some kind of big secret that towns are conspiring to keep hidden? If a buyer is going to a realtor, sniffing around about properties in West Orange, he's already done a bunch of research and comparisons, knows about the taxes, and is still interested anyway.

Look at the numbers posted above. Someone not even in the buying process was able to look that up at the snap of a finger and the tap of a key.

This post shows a complete lack of understanding of Capitalism in general, and the real estate profession in particular. I don't care if a single buyer buys high or low, or in West Orange or Chatham. I don't care what an individual buyer decides to pull the trigger on. MY ONLY JOB IS EDUCATING THE BUYER ABOUT WHAT HE IS BUYING, AND PROTECTING THE BUYER FROM MAKING A MISTAKE.


How can that be? What does he mean by that? REAL ESTATE IS A REFERRAL PROFESSION. You make your money by getting recommended over and over by a happy buyer's or seller's family, friends, cousins, in-laws, coworkers, clients, business associates, suppliers, in short, EVERYBODY. Protected and informed buyers and sellers are how you make money, not "selling the house for the highest possible price". The best real estate agent is a WET BLANKET. My job is to look for trouble. That's what I am paid to do.


I am not a salesman at all. I am a consultant paid to provide information and advice, based on experience and advanced knowledge and expertise. That's what the good agents do nowadays. It's not altruism, I do it because that's how I make the most money and that's how I have the most fun. It's purely selfish, and that's what makes Capitalism so great. Everyone acting in their own rational self-interest and building win-win relationships that maximize everyone's potential.


And that is why I am so defensive about freedom, and so against excessive taxation. Taxation which steals the wealth, and therefore the time, and therefore the freedom, of some for the unearned and undeserved benefit of others. West Orange takes more freedom than most other towns. And that is BAD.

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by Docendo discimus

Ok, so we've reached the 'You're just jealous!' point in this "discussion". This is mind numbing. What are you going to tell me next? That you're rubber and I'm glue? Put your big boy pants on, and join us at the adult's table.

You really don't have a clue what you are talking about. I currently live in that general Stepford vicinity, and grew up in one of the richie rich suburban towns of Essex/Morris. I'm one of the ones that chose to stay and settle here because I don't care what people think of the suburbs.

But I don't delude myself that I am living in a land of "prestige". What you call "prestige", other people roll their eyes at. Everyone from the self proclaimed sophisticated city folk who sneer at what they consider a sterile, Stepford, corny cookie cutter suburban wasteland, to the self proclaimed bad ass hillbilly hunter farmer country folk who think we're all a bunch of weak, clueless, pretentious morons paying too much money for a too tiny parcel of over developed land. We've had both types chime in on this forum many times.

And you know who's laughing at the whole lot of us? People in the South and the Midwest who go into shock at the thought of even $5,000/year taxes, who think we are all insane for choosing to pay such high taxes to live in the armpit of America with Snookie and The Sopranos as neighbors. Those folks stop by to sneer at us every so often as well.

So as much as you spout off at the mouth about the IDIOTS who choose to live in the confiscatory conditions of Essex County and West Orange, where the evil evil tyrannical government is stripping citizens of their freedom, there are plenty of people thinking YOU are also an IDIOT for living in NJ at all, especially north Jersey.

Why do you continue to live here with the rest of us morons? Are you an IDIOT who likes to be stripped of your freedom by a confiscatory tyrannical government? If you move to Kansas right now, you can buy a mansion-castle with a moat and on 4 acres and your taxes would only be $2,000 a year. I'm pretty sure you choose to stay in your corner of Morris County because (1) you CAN, and (2) you have your reasons.

Same goes for people who live in West Orange. They pay those taxes because they CAN.

You are now starting to lapse into random and idle emotionalism, bringing shame and dishonor to your Aristotelian handle. By teaching, we learn. I've done the teaching, now start doing your part.

[Docendo discimus]

Originally Posted by Melland

for $923.00 more per month....you could have an 'asset' (The House) worth almost 2x more than the one in West Orange. If you're going to pay more for something, it should be the asset.

Different people have different ideas of how best to spend their money.

Also, it's not just $923 more per month. It's nearly double the down payment, as well.

[Docendo discimus]

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

This post shows a complete lack of understanding of Capitalism in general, and the real estate profession in particular. I don't care if a single buyer buys high or low, or in West Orange or Chatham. I don't care what an individual buyer decides to pull the trigger on. MY ONLY JOB IS EDUCATING THE BUYER ABOUT WHAT HE IS BUYING, AND PROTECTING THE BUYER FROM MAKING A MISTAKE.


How can that be? What does he mean by that? REAL ESTATE IS A REFERRAL PROFESSION. You make your money by getting recommended over and over by a happy buyer's or seller's family, friends, cousins, in-laws, coworkers, clients, business associates, suppliers, in short, EVERYBODY. Protected and informed buyers and sellers are how you make money, not "selling the house for the highest possible price". The best real estate agent is a WET BLANKET. My job is to look for trouble. That's what I am paid to do.


I am not a salesman at all. I am a consultant paid to provide information and advice, based on experience and advanced knowledge and expertise. That's what the good agents do nowadays. It's not altruism, I do it because that's how I make the most money and that's how I have the most fun. It's purely selfish, and that's what makes Capitalism so great. Everyone acting in their own rational self-interest and building win-win relationships that maximize everyone's potential.


And that is why I am so defensive about freedom, and so against excessive taxation. Taxation which steals the wealth, and therefore the time, and therefore the freedom, of some for the unearned and undeserved benefit of others. West Orange takes more freedom than most other towns. And that is BAD.

LOL, Capitalism? You are spinning out.

Your posts are the most over-the-top, pompous, self-aggrandizing feats of internet I have ever seen. Good lord.

[Docendo discimus]

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

You are now starting to lapse into random and idle emotionalism, bringing shame and dishonor to your Aristotelian handle. By teaching, we learn. I've done the teaching, now start doing your part.

You have obsessively and rabidly trashed West Orange this entire thread, rambling on about freedom, tyranny, confiscation of private property, statism, and now Capitalism...dismissing people as idiots and irrational cattle...in ALL CAPS and rainbow fonts...and I'M the one lapsing into random and idle emotionalism?

I don't know how much teaching you've done. You've done a lot of bloviating, though. You'd make an excellent politician.

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by Docendo discimus

You have obsessively and rabidly trashed West Orange this entire thread, rambling on about freedom, tyranny, confiscation of private property, statism, and now Capitalism...dismissing people as idiots and irrational cattle...in ALL CAPS and rainbow fonts...and I'M the one lapsing into random and idle emotionalism?

I don't know how much teaching you've done. You've done a lot of bloviating, though. You'd make an excellent politician.

Let's agree to disagree. You are boring me.