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Old 05-30-2016, 12:18 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
728 posts, read 1,960,767 times
Reputation: 239

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melland View Post
There isn't one answer as to why the taxes keep going up......Lots of it is out of the local districts hands when it comes to schools....and lots of it has to do that there are no real checks and balances in WO. In my time living in WO I can not recall the Town Council ever voting down anything the mayor and his administration wanted. At worst it was a 4-1 vote......

If you choose the Gregory area you will like it....the homes and people are great....the elementary school is very good....but pay attention to the Middle Schools...and of course the taxes.
I think taxes over the past 10 years have gone up everywhere and pretty close to the same rate.
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Old 05-30-2016, 01:09 PM
 
63 posts, read 182,062 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Property taxes are ad valorem, based on the value. That takes everything into account. So yes, in Chatham you get a smaller house, but you get better commuting, infinitely more prestige, higher class people around you to live with, better resale value, prime schools, a better downtown, etc. .
Better commuting from Chatham?!?! On what planet? My commute from my lovely home in the Gregory neighborhood in WO to the Wall St area is one hour and ten minutes from the time I close my front door till I sit down at my desk. Try that from Chatham. Your hysteria, extremism, and nonsense about "higher class people" and "prestige" don't even merit a response, but do try to get your basic facts right.
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Old 05-30-2016, 02:54 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,005,053 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauras23 View Post
Better commuting from Chatham?!?! On what planet? My commute from my lovely home in the Gregory neighborhood in WO to the Wall St area is one hour and ten minutes from the time I close my front door till I sit down at my desk. Try that from Chatham. Your hysteria, extremism, and nonsense about "higher class people" and "prestige" don't even merit a response, but do try to get your basic facts right.

So, let's see. I'll use midtown instead of downtown, not everybody works downtown.


Depart : CHATHAM at 8:06 AM Board : Train 6620 toward NEW YORK PENN STATIONArrive : NEW YORK PENN STATION at 8:57 AM

Trains are better than buses. So most commuters will prefer the Chatham experience, especially if you live in the borough. I wouldn't take a bus to NYC on a daily basis for any money. You are subject to the vagaries of traffic and can never be sure what time you will arrive. Plus buses are bumpy and nasty and smelly and noisy and slippy and slidey in the winter. Trains beats buses, and Chatham has the train.

But you didn't really care about that, it was the prestige part that got you. And certain towns have prestige and certain towns don't. Chatham has lots of prestige. Higher incomes, more exclusive. I'm just reporting the facts.

So the commute is roughly similar, and superior if you prefer the single train with no jitney or other nonsense. But Chatham's prestige is much higher. And most importantly, the taxes are much lower. Much, much, much lower. And yet the schools are top of the line.

I'm not seeing a choice here, unless someone is short on the necessary scratch to afford the Chatham experience.

Anyway the original point of my post was a not a community vs community evaluation, it was to point out that West Orange has confiscatory, wealth-stripping property taxation that is not found in many other towns. Where ordinary working citizens living in run of the mill housing can expect to pay mind boggling property taxes often in the $15,000 to $20,000 range. Just information for the decision making process of where to live. Knowledge is power. Buyer beware.

Last edited by Marc Paolella; 05-30-2016 at 03:13 PM..
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Old 05-30-2016, 03:13 PM
 
2,132 posts, read 2,213,964 times
Reputation: 3924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
But you didn't really care about that, it was the prestige part that got you. And certain towns have prestige and certain towns don't. Chatham has lots of prestige. Higher incomes, more exclusive. I'm just reporting the facts.
Who determines a town's prestige level? In the more interesting, "diverse" towns (M/M/SO), we tend to feel sorry for people who live in the Chatham area. Dull, dull, dull. Nothing but hedge fund managers.
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Old 05-30-2016, 03:21 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,005,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthnry View Post
Who determines a town's prestige level? In the more interesting, "diverse" towns (M/M/SO), we tend to feel sorry for people who live in the Chatham area. Dull, dull, dull. Nothing but hedge fund managers.
Income. Wealth. It's that simple. Higher income, higher wealth, higher prestige. Towns that are populated by wealthy people are prestigious and exclusive. Lots of doctors, lawyers, captains of industry, movers, shakers, entertainers, athletes, achievers. Prestige comes from big people doing big things. And those people generally makes lots of bread. And often they tend to live together. Certain towns attract these people, and as a result are prestigious. You needn't "feel sorry" for them, most of them are not boring at all. On the contrary they are usually highly educated, sophisticated and often very fun to be around.
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Old 05-30-2016, 03:49 PM
 
10,221 posts, read 19,152,378 times
Reputation: 10886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
So, let's see. I'll use midtown instead of downtown, not everybody works downtown.


Depart : CHATHAM at 8:06 AM Board : Train 6620 toward NEW YORK PENN STATIONArrive : NEW YORK PENN STATION at 8:57 AM
I live in West Orange, on a lot that's about 1/3acre in a 2000 square foot house built in 1960. Taxes are roughly $13,000. My commute is 1 hour door to door to Chelsea, via Orange Station and Penn Station. You can't do that from Chatham. Am I being robbed in taxes? Sure. But trying to claim Chatham is better on all counts is silly.
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Old 05-30-2016, 04:20 PM
 
75 posts, read 203,988 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Income. Wealth. It's that simple. Higher income, higher wealth, higher prestige. Towns that are populated by wealthy people are prestigious and exclusive. Lots of doctors, lawyers, captains of industry, movers, shakers, entertainers, athletes, achievers. Prestige comes from big people doing big things. And those people generally makes lots of bread. And often they tend to live together. Certain towns attract these people, and as a result are prestigious. You needn't "feel sorry" for them, most of them are not boring at all. On the contrary they are usually highly educated, sophisticated and often very fun to be around.
And your office is where? Oh -- Roxbury.



LOL.
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:06 PM
 
63 posts, read 182,062 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
So, let's see. I'll use midtown instead of downtown, not everybody works downtown.


Depart : CHATHAM at 8:06 AM Board : Train 6620 toward NEW YORK PENN STATIONArrive : NEW YORK PENN STATION at 8:57 AM

Trains are better than buses. So most commuters will prefer the Chatham experience, especially if you live in the borough. I wouldn't take a bus to NYC on a daily basis for any money. You are subject to the vagaries of traffic and can never be sure what time you will arrive. Plus buses are bumpy and nasty and smelly and noisy and slippy and slidey in the winter. Trains beats buses, and Chatham has the train.

But you didn't really care about that, it was the prestige part that got you. And certain towns have prestige and certain towns don't. Chatham has lots of prestige. Higher incomes, more exclusive. I'm just reporting the facts.

So the commute is roughly similar, and superior if you prefer the single train with no jitney or other nonsense. But Chatham's prestige is much higher. And most importantly, the taxes are much lower. Much, much, much lower. And yet the schools are top of the line.

I'm not seeing a choice here, unless someone is short on the necessary scratch to afford the Chatham experience.

Anyway the original point of my post was a not a community vs community evaluation, it was to point out that West Orange has confiscatory, wealth-stripping property taxation that is not found in many other towns. Where ordinary working citizens living in run of the mill housing can expect to pay mind boggling property taxes often in the $15,000 to $20,000 range. Just information for the decision making process of where to live. Knowledge is power. Buyer beware.
Yes, those fabulous trains to Penn Station always run spot on time, and of course everyone in Chatham lives right at the train station and works at Penn Station, so that's totally an apples-to-apples comparison. And your disgraceful snobbery is showing when you talk about the bus, but I have no idea what the bus has to do with anything in this discussion, since it's not how I commute.

Please don't project your bizarre obsession with "prestige" onto me. "Prestige" and exclusivity were not among the factors that were included in my decision to buy in West Orange. Good neighbors (I judge them by their friendliness and sense of community, not what kind of cars they drive or where they work), a beautiful, safe neighborhood, a manageable commute, and nearby amenities--those are some of the things I looked for and found in my town. Not everyone shares your snobbery or right-wing values, thank God.

What's with this bizarre animus toward West Orange, anyway? Did you get dumped by someone who lives here, or bullied by a resident in third grade? Others have noted that you don't ply your trade here, so your clients presumably don't need you to warn them against considering this terrible non-prestige place and its taxes. So why the need to hijack a thread about a place that doesn't want people like you anyway?
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Old 05-30-2016, 08:08 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,005,053 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauras23 View Post
Yes, those fabulous trains to Penn Station always run spot on time, and of course everyone in Chatham lives right at the train station and works at Penn Station, so that's totally an apples-to-apples comparison. And your disgraceful snobbery is showing when you talk about the bus, but I have no idea what the bus has to do with anything in this discussion, since it's not how I commute.

Please don't project your bizarre obsession with "prestige" onto me. "Prestige" and exclusivity were not among the factors that were included in my decision to buy in West Orange. Good neighbors (I judge them by their friendliness and sense of community, not what kind of cars they drive or where they work), a beautiful, safe neighborhood, a manageable commute, and nearby amenities--those are some of the things I looked for and found in my town. Not everyone shares your snobbery or right-wing values, thank God.

What's with this bizarre animus toward West Orange, anyway? Did you get dumped by someone who lives here, or bullied by a resident in third grade? Others have noted that you don't ply your trade here, so your clients presumably don't need you to warn them against considering this terrible non-prestige place and its taxes. So why the need to hijack a thread about a place that doesn't want people like you anyway?

The commute varies but is roughly similar. Depends exactly where you are going in Manhattan and what time you are leaving and what mode of transportation you are using. And of course many people who live in West Orange don't commute anywhere. They work locally or at home like me.


However, taxes. That's the topic. Taxes. Taxes. Taxes. $650,000 house. $9,300 in Chatham. $21,500 in West Orange. There should be an identifiable reason why one town can provide all the services, and prestige, and state-of-the-art schools for so much less. Where is all that extra money going? Inquiring minds want to know why a local government needs to confiscate so much of the citizen's wealth.


I understand the silly "hometown loyalty" angle. That's a given on CD. But I want to know about these taxes. Who is getting all this confiscated wealth and what on Earth are they doing with it?
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Old 05-30-2016, 08:21 PM
 
1,174 posts, read 1,743,645 times
Reputation: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The commute varies but is roughly similar. Depends exactly where you are going in Manhattan and what time you are leaving and what mode of transportation you are using. And of course many people who live in West Orange don't commute anywhere. They work locally or at home like me.


However, taxes. That's the topic. Taxes. Taxes. Taxes. $650,000 house. $9,300 in Chatham. $21,500 in West Orange. There should be an identifiable reason why one town can provide all the services, and prestige, and state-of-the-art schools for so much less. Where is all that extra money going? Inquiring minds want to know why a local government needs to confiscate so much of the citizen's wealth.


I understand the silly "hometown loyalty" angle. That's a given on CD. But I want to know about these taxes. Who is getting all this confiscated wealth and what on Earth are they doing with it?
Again, you cant do this comparison because in West Orange, one doesnt have to spend $650,000. If i want a 4br 3bath 2200+ sqft home, i can get one for well under that price. As low as in the 200s according to zillow. In chatham, the absolute lowest for that is 650k and many are close to $1M. So the reality is, you will pay more for the same house in Chatham. Regardless of what percentage of that is taxes.
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