Union County-based AA family looking for a way out of NJ entirely (Westfield: real estate, apartment complex)

[rekaten]

Going to make this as short and brief as possible...we've lived in NJ our whole lives, but things took a downturn in the last half decade or so when we experienced financial hardship. I've thankfully made a break for it and left for college now (heading into my second year), but I would ideally want my family to leave also. They MIGHT be following me out Jersey's exit door within the next 1-2 years. The only obstacle is that my dad for some reason has an undying loyalty to the state of New Jersey despite us having a very difficult time in the last several years...STUBBORN loyalty that I fear may hold us back from reaching our full potential.

We're an African-American family. We currently reside in an apartment complex. One of the snobbiest towns in the whole state of NJ, it's known for having a high-ranking school district and very uptight, elitist residents who all live in a bubble. Hypocritical, too - a lot of residents would say the same thing but take exception to me saying it. (Can you guess where we are? LOL) Had awful growing pains here in this town which was a massive motivating factor for my choice to go as far away as possibly comfortable for college. Highly doubt we as a family would have remained in this particular town for nearly 15 years if the school district wasn't so reputable. Yes it is higher-paying in NJ, and we are only a train ride away from NYC, but I don't see any other pros in staying here outside of that. The COL is so overpriced here that it's not even funny. Another interesting factoid is that NC was recently ranked 3rd for starting businesses, while the home state was a lousy 47th - look it up if you don't believe me. I personally have a pronounced distaste for the collective cultural attitudes of NJ residents, the irritating arrogance consistently on display (though my dad doesn't seem to see it that way...IDK why). The state as a whole is, simply put, incredibly overrated. There's a reason it always tops the list for the most moved-out-of state in the country each year...in addition to being the most disliked.

The entire family discussed the possibility last weekend, so it's in the VERY early blueprint sketching stages. Mom aired her frustrations about how things have been in recent years for us. She cited a relative lack of her own personal success as a justification for a potential departure from the state, and added that the entire family has worked too hard to see our efforts land us where we are at the moment. I echoed her sentiments and went on to mention that that's one of the (many) reasons I left Jersey for college. Dad didn't say anything for some reason even though our struggles have arguably hit him the hardest of all (he's unemployed). We discussed North Carolina (where I go to school), Virginia, and Maryland as possible options. Mom and I are looking at a move in summer 2017, but my sister would prefer to wait till the year after when she graduates from high school. Don't know exactly how my little brother, who enters high school this coming fall, feels about moving in general. Having spent a year in NC, I really like it a lot and would obviously prefer them heading down to live in the state with me for many reasons (such as getting in-state tuition for my senior year). Mom mentioned that she had heard great things about NC from black friends who relocated there. My siblings...are a different story. They seem to think that racism is still prevalent in the state for some strange reason (especially strange considering there are far more AAs in NC than there are in NJ, and also because NJ is one of the most segregated states in the country). I obviously think NC is a great state, and would love for the family to move next year if NC is indeed eventually picked as the destination. We plan on visiting the state for vacation before I return to school.

My personal top choices are Wilmington, Charlotte, Richmond, Raleigh/Durham, and Columbia MD. Also investigating Severn and Bowie in MD as well. I was looking at NoVA and Hampton Roads, but further searches found that both would be more of the same as where we are now. Ideally, a move to NC would take place next year. I would be fine with either 2017 or 2018 with VA, while MD would probably have to wait until 2018. We would start/move business plans (caring home for the developmentally/physically disabled and a FitBiz) to wherever we would land. Really, we're looking for the best combo of a fresh start with a lower COL and a higher overall quality of life.

I plan on discussing the possible destinations with my mom within the next week or two, but I don't know if my dad would be receptive to such a discussion at this point. Looking for opinions on each of our choices and other perspectives as well. I truly do feel that our plans would be better executed elsewhere, so remaining in New Jersey (or unthinkably worse, in our current town), is by far the least desirable option from both my POV and that of my mother's. But we will see.

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by rekaten

They MIGHT be following me out Jersey's exit door within the next 1-2 years. The only obstacle is that my dad for some reason has an undying loyalty to the state of New Jersey despite us having a very difficult time in the last several years...STUBBORN loyalty that I fear may hold us back from reaching our full potential.

maybe he doesnt want to make important life decisions at the urging of someone with no life experience. if moving is the best route, maybe you can ask an adult to discuss it with your father.

[rekaten]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

maybe he doesnt want to make important life decisions at the urging of someone with no life experience. if moving is the best route, maybe you can ask an adult to discuss it with your father.

Um, my mother. She obviously qualifies as the biggest voice of reason here. Hence why I'm talking it out with her first.

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by rekaten

Um, my mother. She obviously qualifies as the biggest voice of reason here. Hence why I'm talking it out with her first.

i dont know the town that you are currently in but it was probably a good choice and your negative attitude regarding it makes me question your judgment. of course, i also would be very hesitant to take advice from a sophomore in college. my cousin's son just graduated college and we had a graduation party last weekend. the thought that i would take advice from him or any of his homeskillets on my life seems crazy to me. your mom is very important for your dad to buy into it but i think it would take more than that. ultimately, you need some kind of assurance that where you are going is better than where you are. without local family or close friends in the place you are moving; its hard to feel confident in that decision to move. i dont see any reason to assume that the grass is so much greener in NC for you guys.

[rekaten]

We're in Westfield, which was a good choice...in 2003. Outside of the safety of the area and the school district, not so much anymore. Why would my justifiably negative attitude regarding a place where we've suffered emotional AND financial hardship make you question my judgment?

We don't have any family living anywhere particularly close to us. The family of my closest HS friend actually did move to Wilmington just after graduation. We may not really have any close friends outside of NJ (to my knowledge), but like I said, my mom has heard good things about NC from her black friends who left NJ to relocate there. The fact that all of our friends are here doesn't deter my mom from really wanting a fresh start. She feels emotionally and spiritually drained from spending all these years here with no real reward or accomplishments to show for it.

Let me guess, you think NC is "racist" too? Or is there some other reason you have to assume that the grass in NC isn't greener? Considering our situation with us just now beginning to rise out of a fairly lengthy period of financial misfortune and instability, I don't see why the heck we should be paying so much more to live in a place that obviously isn't working for us.

[AlDente67]

Originally Posted by rekaten

We're in Westfield, which was a good choice...in 2003. Outside of the safety of the area and the school district, not so much anymore. Why would my justifiably negative attitude regarding a place where we've suffered emotional AND financial hardship make you question my judgment?

We don't have any family living anywhere particularly close to us. The family of my closest HS friend actually did move to Wilmington just after graduation. We may not really have any close friends outside of NJ (to my knowledge), but like I said, my mom has heard good things about NC from her black friends who left NJ to relocate there. The fact that all of our friends are here doesn't deter my mom from really wanting a fresh start. She feels emotionally and spiritually drained from spending all these years here with no real reward or accomplishments to show for it.

Let me guess, you think NC is "racist" too? Or is there some other reason you have to not assume that the grass in NC isn't greener?

A good friend of mine, no make that two of them, moved to NC in the last 9 months. They have nothing but rave reviews. If I had no roots here, I'd be in the truck down 95 next week.

I can't speak for any racial tensions, as they are both white guys. If I had my druthers, I wouldn't stop until Costa Rica, but one step at a time. If you have no real estate to unwind, I see no reason not to try it. The worst that can happen is you and the family want to return. But I doubt it.

Good luck.

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by rekaten

We're in Westfield, which was a good choice...in 2003. Outside of the safety of the area and the school district, not so much anymore. Why would my justifiably negative attitude regarding a place where we've suffered emotional AND financial hardship make you question my judgment?

We don't have any family living anywhere particularly close to us. The family of my closest HS friend actually did move to Wilmington just after graduation. We may not really have any close friends outside of NJ (to my knowledge), but like I said, my mom has heard good things about NC from her black friends who left NJ to relocate there. The fact that all of our friends are here doesn't deter my mom from really wanting a fresh start. She feels emotionally and spiritually drained from spending all these years here with no real reward or accomplishments to show for it.

Let me guess, you think NC is "racist" too? Or is there some other reason you have to assume that the grass in NC isn't greener? Considering our situation with us just now beginning to rise out of a fairly lengthy period of financial misfortune and instability, I don't see why the heck we should be paying so much more to live in a place that obviously isn't working for us.

westfield is still considered a good choice. when i see your negative attitude, i have my doubts that you are putting the blame in the right place or properly assessing why you should expect better in NC than westfield. you may be right but since you havent had to deal with finding a real long term job or raising your own family; its hard to trust your opinion. when i was a sophomore in college the first thing on my mind was banging chicks and the 2nd thing on my mind was banging chicks and the third thing on my mind was banging chicks. maybe you think NC has more chicks to bang for you instead of better career prospects for your father.

i dont think NC is racist. it sounds to me like a lot of people are moving there and are very happy. but moving is a big step and a lot of people always think the grass is always greener only to find themselves with complaints when they move. people who are complainers tend to be unhappy wherever they are. i remember when i was a kid, everyone complained about living in marlboro, nj. its so boring, there's nothing to do. as an adult, i think that we were clueless and just a bunch of whiny babies. it was a good place to raise a family. you are still at a point in your life where you dont have the same perspective as an adult.

[HudsonCoNJ]

Shouldn't this belong in the North Carolina forum?

I won't be as harsh as CaptainNJ. Just because you are young and have limited life experience it doesn't mean your opinion on important matters should be immediately dismissed. But he does have a point. If a big part of your family's struggles have been financial, you really have no proof that they will do any better in NC. Sure, plenty have made the move and fared better in NC. But the truth is you moved there for school. It's a much different experience when you have to go look for a job, work, and actually live in the state. I don't know much about Westfield, but have you stopped to consider that perhaps your negativity towards your hometown has more to do with your family's struggles than it does your neighborhood? If you were thriving financially, I doubt you would have the same opinions about Westfield.

And in response to all those folks who moved to NC and gave rave reviews-- be careful. People will always to rationalize the choices they've already made to convince themselves it was the right one.

[rekaten]

Originally Posted by Orion99

A good friend of mine, no make that two of them, moved to NC in the last 9 months. They have nothing but rave reviews. If I had no roots here, I'd be in the truck down 95 next week.

I can't speak for any racial tensions, as they are both white guys. If I had my druthers, I wouldn't stop until Costa Rica, but one step at a time. If you have no real estate to unwind, I see no reason not to try it. The worst that can happen is you and the family want to return. But I doubt it.

Good luck.

Exactly. There are many reasons why so many NJers switch to NC. We have no real estate to worry about selling, so there should be no problem. Racially, I always felt like an outcast in Westfield - the HS is almost 90% white (town itself is 80%) and many are wealthy conservative families. I personally experienced more racism in NJ than I ever have in NC - and I've visited the country down there as well - but, of course, my dad, who hasn't really stepped foot outside of the Northeast in a LONG time, completely rejects that notion. Which, I guess, is fairly reasonable since the media distortions of both states are of course correct.

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

westfield is still considered a good choice. when i see your negative attitude, i have my doubts that you are putting the blame in the right place or properly assessing why you should expect better in NC than westfield. you may be right but since you havent had to deal with finding a real long term job or raising your own family; its hard to trust your opinion. when i was a sophomore in college the first thing on my mind was banging chicks and the 2nd thing on my mind was banging chicks and the third thing on my mind was banging chicks. maybe you think NC has more chicks to bang for you instead of better career prospects for your father.

i dont think NC is racist. it sounds to me like a lot of people are moving there and are very happy. but moving is a big step and a lot of people always think the grass is always greener only to find themselves with complaints when they move. people who are complainers tend to be unhappy wherever they are. i remember when i was a kid, everyone complained about living in marlboro, nj. its so boring, there's nothing to do. as an adult, i think that we were clueless and just a bunch of whiny babies. it was a good place to raise a family. you are still at a point in your life where you dont have the same perspective as an adult.

Bolded part = an exceptionally rude, and incorrect, statement. NC girls, from my experience, are sweeter, classier, and even a slight bit better-looking. But I will gladly have you know that my father is my hero and I want nothing more in this world, in this life, than to see him and my family comfortable and happy. Sheesh.

No, the grass isn't always greener. But you'll never know if you don't try. No place is perfect, every city has its strengths and weaknesses. It's just that NJ, particularly Northern NJ and especially Westfield, has very numerous glaring weaknesses and cons that often overshadow the very few pros and bright spots.

Originally Posted by HudsonCoNJ

Shouldn't this belong in the North Carolina forum?

I won't be as harsh as CaptainNJ. Just because you are young and have limited life experience it doesn't mean your opinion on important matters should be immediately dismissed. But he does have a point. If a big part of your family's struggles have been financial, you really have no proof that they will do any better in NC. Sure, plenty have made the move and fared better in NC. But the truth is you moved there for school. It's a much different experience when you have to go look for a job, work, and actually live in the state. I don't know much about Westfield, but have you stopped to consider that perhaps your negativity towards your hometown has more to do with your family's struggles than it does your neighborhood? If you were thriving financially, I doubt you would have the same opinions about Westfield.

And in response to all those folks who moved to NC and gave rave reviews-- be careful. People will always to rationalize the choices they've already made to convince themselves it was the right one.

I already made a post in the general NC forum, as well as posts in the specific sub-forums of the areas of interest. I posted here to get some perspectives from fellow New Jerseyans (and yes, I braced myself for some harsh comments - this is NJ we're in after all).

Yes, there is no proof that it will be better in NC, or VA, or MD. But I've yet to see any evidence that it will be worse, and until that happens I have no reason to believe remaining in NJ is our best option. Westfield is indeed a good place to raise a family (even with the reasonably high risk of one's children growing up to be spoilt brats), and I am grateful for the primary and secondary education I received which prepared me very well for college. If we were thriving financially, I probably wouldn't be pushing for a move as hard. But the comments about segregation, not fitting in, and the stuck-up atmosphere created by many of the residents? 100% factual.

And maybe, I don't know, some people don't have to try to rationalize their choices and are actually very happy with the choices they make?

[King of the South]

Rekaten,

Even though many of your points in your posts made me cringe, I did enjoy reading them. I live in WF and, yes, I am a silvery white blonde guy, but let's build on what some of the other posters wrote.

- sophomores always think they know the most, whether they are in HS or college. I am not dismissing outright what you are saying, but my perspective was certainly skewered back then. I too thought I had all the answers about life. But it is easy to preach when you are in school and not working full-time. And like the other poster said, I too was certainly prioritizing girls over almost everything else at the time.

- You obviously are smart and a good writer. Doesn't your Dad feel proud of you? Doesn't he feel proud of himself for getting you through the WF school district and into college?

-college students tend to still be in the egotistical stages. I speak from experience and research, not condescension. Surely you do not want to pull your brother from HS before he graduates? And don't you think it will be almost impossible for your youngest sibling to get the same high calibre Westfield education anyplace else? Why don't you wait for them both to finish high school?

-will it be easy for your Mom to find work down south? It sounds like your Dad hit tough times so it shouldn't affect him, but does your Mom want to risk not being able to find comparable work?

-I can't speak much about NC but you are right about the cost of living in NJ. It's too high and the state is anti-business. You will do better in other states if you want to start a business.

-So I can't speak about where you may be going to, but I can speak about where you are coming from - you just admitted that WF is a great place to raise a family. So let your parents finish raising your siblings there. WHat were th emotional problems you had from WF? I only know one African-American kid who finished the Hs a couple of years ago. He told me he felt overprepared for college. He loved the place, at least that is what he told me.
Did you play sports or do extracurriculars at the high school? Did you go to the Y when you were younger? The Y is probably the most diverse place in the town and those swim teachers the kids into fish practically.

-like i said, i do not want to dismiss your concerns. I want to know more about what they are.

- I am glad you recognize your dad NOW for all the good that he is - some of us don't figure that out until much later in life.

-and p.s. - if you want to see spoiled, take a ride out to millburn when the schools let out this week. The WHS kids are prince charmings and cinderellas, in comparison.