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NJ Transit can't even get people 10 miles from NJ into NYC without some type of problem or delay. Every day is another problem. And you want them to maintain 120 miles of track from NYC to AC?
The 10 miles between Newark and NYC is the most complicated, convoluted, abused, and robbed stretch of passenger rail in the country.
You can extend rail out into the hinterland for a hundred miles and operate a railroad just fine... until it passes Newark and enters that hellish home stretch. NJT was beginning to fix it. Someone pulled the plug on it.
The 10 miles between Newark and NYC is the most complicated, convoluted, abused, and robbed stretch of passenger rail in the country.
You can extend rail out into the hinterland for a hundred miles and operate a railroad just fine... until it passes Newark and enters that hellish home stretch. NJT was beginning to fix it. Someone pulled the plug on it.
Maybe, but as things stand in AC right now, there is simply not going to be enough demand for anyone to want to travel into the "hinterland" to justify building a railroad. The city is a crime-infested disaster. The Revel casino was open, what, 2 years before they went bankrupt? Why would anyone invest in that city.
NJ Transit can't even get people 10 miles from NJ into NYC without some type of problem or delay. Every day is another problem. And you want them to maintain 120 miles of track from NYC to AC?
This is not an entirely fair comment. Most of the problems happen on the NEC line that rents tracks from Amtrak. These are also maintained by Amtrak. The lines that are maintained by NJT are generally doing better. I take Bergen County line every day and while it is not prefect, the delays are not that frequent. Unless of course the tunnel problem forces a lot of trains to be redirected to Hoboken...
Maybe, but as things stand in AC right now, there is simply not going to be enough demand for anyone to want to travel into the "hinterland" to justify building a railroad. The city is a crime-infested disaster. The Revel casino was open, what, 2 years before they went bankrupt? Why would anyone invest in that city.
That's a different question from the infrastructure maintenance issue. I agree that building a new coastal rail line is a bad idea because there's no market for it.
The fact that Amtrak cannot maintain its infrastructure between NYC-Newark, and the fact that no solution is in sight is a sad situation. But it's not proof that NJT can or cannot operate a service someplace else.
I think one of the main reasons people are still going to Cape May is precisely because it's not the easiest to get to. If you put a train line in or an airport in AC then, as Yogi Berra said, nobody's going to go there anymore, it's too popular.
I love Yogi Berra quotes. There's a Philly to Atlantic City train. They have a small airport.
I get that there aren't as many people down there as in the North, but the public transportation options are terrible. The AC line cut their primary commuter 7 AM run to Philly years ago. I have no idea why. The trip became a three seat ride--bus to PATCO, PATCO to whatever in Philly. That'll kill you after a while.
The 10 miles between Newark and NYC is the most complicated, convoluted, abused, and robbed stretch of passenger rail in the country.
You can extend rail out into the hinterland for a hundred miles and operate a railroad just fine... until it passes Newark and enters that hellish home stretch. NJT was beginning to fix it. Someone pulled the plug on it.
PRR constructed the ROW between Newark and Pennsylvania Station in NYC to suit its own trains and needs. Over the years since Penn-Central went bankrupt and Amtrak along with NJT took over saw huge increase in traffic.
Much of this IIRC is due to the Aldene Connection which allowed former CNJ and Lehigh Valley RR lines to have access into NEC and Newark Penn Station. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldene_Connection
It is important to remember only the PRR built tunnels under the Hudson River and a new station in Manhattan, linking that railroad to the "rest of the nation". The other passenger railroads to the east (CNJ, Erie, DLW) still used terminals and ferries to reach Manhattan, Brooklyn and even Staten Island. Even the PRR kept a terminal along the Hudson but mostly used it for freight as that traffic couldn't go through the tunnels.
In the upheavals that followed mergers and bankruptcies now basically all passenger rail traffic from several railroads goes into Newark Penn and perhaps NYC Penn. That is an awful lot of trains going in various directions converging upon one area.
That's a different question from the infrastructure maintenance issue. I agree that building a new coastal rail line is a bad idea because there's no market for it.
The fact that Amtrak cannot maintain its infrastructure between NYC-Newark, and the fact that no solution is in sight is a sad situation. But it's not proof that NJT can or cannot operate a service someplace else.
IIRC the last direct NYC area train service to AC was the CNJ's "Blue Comet". That train ran from Jersey City to Atlantic City and took about three hours.
You had the Atlantic City Express (ACES) service that ran from 2009-2012 (and lost money) which went from NYP to AC via Philadelphia, but that trip took slightly less time (about 2 hours or so give or take). However the trains had to go first to Philadelphia then switch around and head back down to AC for various reasons.
Traffic on the NEC between NYC and Philadelphia is tight to say the least; but without the Newark Bay Bridge (demolished in 1980's) there isn't any other way IIRC to get down towards AC without building new ROW. Any new bridge would cost billions and take ages to clear through regulatory hurdles, all for a train that likely never would make a profit, much less ROI.
IIRC the last direct NYC area train service to AC was the CNJ's "Blue Comet". That train ran from Jersey City to Atlantic City and took about three hours.
You had the Atlantic City Express (ACES) service that ran from 2009-2012 (and lost money) which went from NYP to AC via Philadelphia, but that trip took slightly less time (about 2 hours or so give or take). However the trains had to go first to Philadelphia then switch around and head back down to AC for various reasons.
Traffic on the NEC between NYC and Philadelphia is tight to say the least; but without the Newark Bay Bridge (demolished in 1980's) there isn't any other way IIRC to get down towards AC without building new ROW. Any new bridge would cost billions and take ages to clear through regulatory hurdles, all for a train that likely never would make a profit, much less ROI.
Is the ROW still there for the Blue comet? That would make a lot south jersey accessible from north jersey. too bad they shut it down.
I think direct access from NYC to AC would require a lot federal funds.
I think the first step would be to make AC an attractive destination again. Unfortunately, this largely depends on philadelphia's recovery. Then, probably camden before AC since its closer to philly.
Is the ROW still there for the Blue comet? That would make a lot south jersey accessible from north jersey. too bad they shut it down.
I think direct access from NYC to AC would require a lot federal funds.
I think the first step would be to make AC an attractive destination again. Unfortunately, this largely depends on philadelphia's recovery. Then, probably camden before AC since its closer to philly.
No, not much is left of the former Blue Comet route:
"The Central Railroad of New Jersey was among the railroads merged into Conrail in April 1976. Conrail began closing segments of the former NJS, and in 1978 severed the main line by abandoning the stretch through the Pine Barrens from Lakehurst to Winslow Junction. The Toms River branch (diverging at Lakehurst) was closed by 1988. Freight service remains on the NJS main line from Red Bank to Lakewood as part of Conrail's Southern Secondary line. The line from Winslow Junction to Vineland is run by the SRNJ, The line south of Landisville is out of service after it was damaged by floods in 2003."
This is the thing about railroads; once you deactivate a line and or abandon ROW unless you change that very quickly it is pretty much gone. Just doing the required environmental impact studies and so forth to even begin planning would cost much and likely to stir certain people up. What a RR could get away with in the early to middle part of the last century is no longer true. A whole lot of people would kick and moan at the idea of RR trains going through the Pine Barrens.
Again he biggest problem with reactivating the former Blue Comet line is that the Newark Bay Bridge is gone. Thus another way would be needed to get from Jersey City down south.
Besides as the casino sponsored Atlantic City express proved you can get to AC by using the former PRR mainline (now Amtrak) down to Philly, then reversing.
Traffic on the NEC between NYC and Philadelphia is tight to say the least; but without the Newark Bay Bridge (demolished in 1980's) there isn't any other way IIRC to get down towards AC without building new ROW. Any new bridge would cost billions and take ages to clear through regulatory hurdles, all for a train that likely never would make a profit, much less ROI.
Trains are public transportation, a public service that is not business. It is not expected to make profits. Neither do highways. I think NJT tries to maintain a 50% farebox recovery ratio or something close to it.
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