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Old 03-26-2008, 06:50 PM
 
Location: High Bridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post
Actually, that brings up a good point: will a qualified inspection search for underground oil tanks be able to detect an oil tank under the basement, as in the OP's situation? I don't think he mentioned how he discovered there was an oil tank underground beneath the basement, but I got the impression that the seller told him about it?
Not really much of a way to know, except by looking at the seller's disclosure. Ask for it from the realtor, be sure to look it over, and if they reply "unknown" - ask.
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Old 03-26-2008, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post


Well, I am looking to buy a home, but I don't yet know whether there is an oil tank underground. That's why I'm thinking about all these different scenarios.

The home is too old to have been using natural gas from the start, but at some point along the way the house was converted to natural gas. I do plan on having an inspection done to see if they can locate any underground oil tanks. And I'm just trying to prepare myself for the potential outcomes of that inspection and what to do.

Actually, that brings up a good point: will a qualified inspection search for underground oil tanks be able to detect an oil tank under the basement, as in the OP's situation? I don't think he mentioned how he discovered there was an oil tank underground beneath the basement, but I got the impression that the seller told him about it?
Older home... it was either coal or oil! A regular inspector can say he doesn't see any evidence but it's the seller's obligation to disclose it. But if the seller bought when it was already converted to gas, they can legally state - gas, not oil! have the inspector bring a metal detector... you can at least scan the ground - you may get a false positive readings but if you get an area say in size of 5 x 4 - it's probably a tank! Look for a fill pipe or vent pipe near the house... typically metal with a vent cap on it located near the foundation.
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Old 03-26-2008, 07:35 PM
 
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Thanks for all the advice, Wiley! I'll post again when I see how things look on this old house.

Oy vey. What a friggin' hassle this is ...
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:06 PM
 
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WileyNJ - one other question:

Based on your experience, is it possible that one could find an underground tank, test the soil thoroughly and find no problem, but then let's say just to be safe you decide you want to remove the tank anyway ... is it possible that the act of removing the tank would CAUSE there to be some contamination spill or something?

In other words, can removing a buried but non-problem tank actually cause a problem?
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,865 posts, read 9,342,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wileynj View Post
I feel your pain Diane. I have actually had homeowner's die on me over this - heart attacks due to the stress it can put a homeowner through! I am very homeowner friendly - I do my best to keep it as cheap as I can..I have even done some non profit cleanups for elderly people. Yours was done a few years back, the costs have since doubled! It's not cheap and if you are one of the lucky ones to have your homeowner's pay for it, that's even better but our lovely dept. of banking and ins. has let the insurance companies off the hook as of August 2005. They no longer have to exclude a pollution exclusion for residential policies for third party claims! Most of the better ins. co's, higher end ins. cos. still cover it but they will try to separate their liability based on when they feel the tank leaked. Say it leak in 2003 and you discovered it in 2008. They will say you have to pay for 2005 on. Not only has it screwed homeoners but it is putting remediation contractors out of business as homeowners can not afford this! The State grant is good but most contractors do not want to get involved as it takes too long to get paid. It's a NJ nightmare!
Wiley, I didn't realize you did this type of work. After it was over there is no way I could have stayed in that house. The entire situation was to stressful for all of us. Mine was fully covered because it hit groundwater, it it hadn't it would not have been covered. It leeked into the crawl of the house so they had to lift the house with herical piers. A few nights when they were doing the work the smell was so bad that I was bidding on Priceline for Hotels for a night or 2. I must have stayed all over NJ during that time.
How could they tell when it leaked? Even I didn't know that and we started work when we did find out. Of course the trucks that took the old groundwater out were on strike when mine was being done, So I had a water tank on my front Lawn, How pretty!
We found out because we had termite insurance and they did a yearly inspection. The inspector having gone thru it himself told me I had a problem.
Right after that we had it checked.
It sounds like the remediation contractors have a problem with the new laws.
There were things we had to pay to be redone.
The op should not buy this house with the tank in place. He may be looking at a huge problem down the road.
I also would be weary of an older home with Gas Heat unless its known that every house has always been Gas. The gas may be there but there could be a leaky tank under the ground. There was a case at my ins company where the homeowner sold a house with tank intack, said it was always gas, then took off to India. State Farm denied the new homeowners claim because they insured a house with Gas Heat, not oil.
Diane G
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
7,577 posts, read 22,555,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post
WileyNJ - one other question:

Based on your experience, is it possible that one could find an underground tank, test the soil thoroughly and find no problem, but then let's say just to be safe you decide you want to remove the tank anyway ... is it possible that the act of removing the tank would CAUSE there to be some contamination spill or something?

In other words, can removing a buried but non-problem tank actually cause a problem?
Not if it's done properly. We expose the top of the tank, cut a hole in it large enough to send someone in to clean it out before we pull it from the ground.
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
7,577 posts, read 22,555,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane Giam View Post
Wiley, I didn't realize you did this type of work. After it was over there is no way I could have stayed in that house. The entire situation was to stressful for all of us. Mine was fully covered because it hit groundwater, it it hadn't it would not have been covered. It leeked into the crawl of the house so they had to lift the house with herical piers. A few nights when they were doing the work the smell was so bad that I was bidding on Priceline for Hotels for a night or 2. I must have stayed all over NJ during that time.
How could they tell when it leaked? Even I didn't know that and we started work when we did find out. Of course the trucks that took the old groundwater out were on strike when mine was being done, So I had a water tank on my front Lawn, How pretty!
We found out because we had termite insurance and they did a yearly inspection. The inspector having gone thru it himself told me I had a problem.
Right after that we had it checked.
It sounds like the remediation contractors have a problem with the new laws.
There were things we had to pay to be redone.
The op should not buy this house with the tank in place. He may be looking at a huge problem down the road.
I also would be weary of an older home with Gas Heat unless its known that every house has always been Gas. The gas may be there but there could be a leaky tank under the ground. There was a case at my ins company where the homeowner sold a house with tank intack, said it was always gas, then took off to India. State Farm denied the new homeowners claim because they insured a house with Gas Heat, not oil.
Diane G
For over 20 years now : ) We have done similiar cleanups like yours..underpinning of the house and driving equipment underneath to remove the contaminated soil. Not a very comfortable place to be with the house hanging over your head : ) It always surprises me that homeowner's ins. refuses to pay for the homeowner to stay in a hotel during this process! Not the safest set-up to live in the house while this process is taking place. I have a project on my desk at the moment that I have to quote on... two houses impacted! Both homes will need Helical Piers installed. It's seems to be the trend lately!
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:41 AM
 
1,552 posts, read 4,621,868 times
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I can't imagine having a house jacked up to do that kind of work ... what a nightmare.

Wiley, thanks again for all this information. It's something I had never really given much thought to, but now I see how important it is to consider this.

Another question: what's the typical cost for a "decomission" versus a removal? If we do an inspection that uncovers an underground oil tank, I would definitely prefer that the seller have it removed before closing rather than just decomissioned. But I'm wondering what's the difference in cost, just so I know what to expect in terms of the seller's response.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
7,577 posts, read 22,555,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post
I can't imagine having a house jacked up to do that kind of work ... what a nightmare.

Wiley, thanks again for all this information. It's something I had never really given much thought to, but now I see how important it is to consider this.

Another question: what's the typical cost for a "decomission" versus a removal? If we do an inspection that uncovers an underground oil tank, I would definitely prefer that the seller have it removed before closing rather than just decomissioned. But I'm wondering what's the difference in cost, just so I know what to expect in terms of the seller's response.
You're more than welcome : )) Abandonments are typically done by hand so you can save a few bucks doing that vs. removal but I typically will only do an abandonment by hand if the owner has soil samples done first to say the tank is fine. I often do my best to convince homeowners to remove vs. fill in. And if the homeowner is set on an abandonment and doesn't want soil samples taken first, I usually charge the same as a removal because I will make sure we bring a machine with us just in case it is determined to be a "leaker", we can pull the tank that day vs. having to charge the homeowner for a second visit... will save money in the long run if it is leaking.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
7,577 posts, read 22,555,187 times
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...sorry - costs: Can run anywhere from 950.00 to 2000.00 depending on the tank size and whether or not it is abandoned or removed.
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